Weiss to Florida - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Caged Great · 05-13-2015, 10:41 PM

To Florida

Weiss
2nd 2016
1 mil cap

To Colorado

Nothing

Well, it is a downgrade from Gionta to Weiss, but it saves a bit of cash. Not sure exactly what I'll do with Weiss but we'll see.

Swayze11 · 05-14-2015, 08:51 AM

Needed to cut some cap after making a few big moves. Weiss being a 61 OVR making 5M was not helping. I figured I would need to give incentive to move him for nothing. Thanks Florida for the deal.

On another note, I am pretty blown away that no other rebuilding team jumped all over this.

JiriHrdina · 05-14-2015, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swayze11

Needed to cut some cap after making a few big moves. Weiss being a 61 OVR making 5M was not helping. I figured I would need to give incentive to move him for nothing. Thanks Florida for the deal.

On another note, I am pretty blown away that no other rebuilding team jumped all over this.

Well basically you sold a 2nd round pick for 4M.
I considered doing it because I've got space, but decided ultimately that wasn't a good trade-off.
For re-building clubs it would have been AWFUL asset management.
A 2nd round pick isn't worth 4M

dsavillian · 05-14-2015, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Well basically you sold a 2nd round pick for 4M.
I considered doing it because I've got space, but decided ultimately that wasn't a good trade-off.
For re-building clubs it would have been AWFUL asset management.
A 2nd round pick isn't worth 4M

I think it depends on how much cap space you expect to have left at UFA time.

4M could be meaningless to certain teams.

But you are right, to most teams 4m is not worth a 2nd

JiriHrdina · 05-14-2015, 01:24 PM

For sure, I think even for a re-building team they would have to be assess how else that 4M could be used, including acquiring an overpaid player for a relatively low cost as a cap dump, and landing free agents.
Just to say - I wouldn't blame re-building teams at all for not jumping at that deal. It is far from a no brainer.

Swayze11 · 05-14-2015, 01:26 PM

Rebuilding teams, take note... just missed out on a great opportunity here.

Caged Great · 05-14-2015, 01:29 PM

Well, part of the reason why I pulled the trigger is that I actually like Weiss as a player, and he started to play more like himself this year instead of playing poorly previously.

With having quite a bit of flexibility on my roster, I had options available so I decided to grab the freebie while I make up my mind. Doesn't mean that I won't flip some assets out after, Just have to see how things shake out. I have months to figure things out.

Plus I don't sign UFA's, only re-sign them.

Moshpit · 05-14-2015, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swayze11

Rebuilding teams, take note... just missed out on a great opportunity here.

Really? How can taking a $5 million dollar, 32 year old player, rated 61 ov be 'missing out on a great opportunity'?

If a team is rebuilding, wouldn't this be the wrong deal to make? Maybe I am missing something but why would anyone want him to begin with- let alone a rebuilding team.

Swayze11 · 05-14-2015, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moshpit

Really? How can taking a $5 million dollar, 32 year old player, rated 61 ov be 'missing out on a great opportunity'?

If a team is rebuilding, wouldn't this be the wrong deal to make? Maybe I am missing something but why would anyone want him to begin with- let alone a rebuilding team.

Because a rebuilding team needs to stock up on assets without giving assets away. A player like Weiss could easily be dealt at next years trade deadline so you get a 2nd round pick + whatever you get for Weiss at the deadline for free.

Hanna Sniper · 05-14-2015, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swayze11

Because a rebuilding team needs to stock up on assets without giving assets away. A player like Weiss could easily be dealt at next years trade deadline so you get a 2nd round pick + whatever you get for Weiss at the deadline for free.

I understand this thinking but don't necessarily agree with it. Where this fails for me is that it relies on the notion that the 4M would have not been applied elsewhere... and then the statement true...

Now where the other side of the viewpoint is whats the price of deal that the 4M know handicaps you and prevents you from doing

Now Caged Great now more easily turns over his roster and moves pieces around so frequently that those handcuffs will be removed almost immediately and thus a perfect trade for this type of organization. Compared to an origination (Canes) that moves on a snails pace and seems to have a commodity of 100 that have to all be in agreement for every roster move ... such a 4M handcuff could cribble the organization and stuggle to find wiggle room by the trade deadline.

I think it's a great trade for all parties, much similar to the Bruins deal early... But I think the dance participants must fill those needs rather then the rebuilding ones.

dsavillian · 05-14-2015, 02:43 PM

Haven't done the buyout math, but I imagine florida could also buy him out and be on the hook for even less.

Caged Great · 05-14-2015, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsavillian

Haven't done the buyout math, but I imagine florida could also buy him out and be on the hook for even less.

3.5 mil buyout.

Not worth it.

JiriHrdina · 05-14-2015, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swayze11

Because a rebuilding team needs to stock up on assets without giving assets away. A player like Weiss could easily be dealt at next years trade deadline so you get a 2nd round pick + whatever you get for Weiss at the deadline for free.

The key though is that cap is an asset and should be thought of as such. So it is a matter of what the more valuable asset is: 4M or the 2nd round pick.

You aren't acquiring a 2nd round pick without giving assets away. You are giving up a different kind of asset in return for the pick.

Swayze11 · 05-14-2015, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The key though is that cap is an asset and should be thought of as such. So it is a matter of what the more valuable asset is: 4M or the 2nd round pick.

You aren't acquiring a 2nd round pick without giving assets away. You are giving up a different kind of asset in return for the pick.

you also need to factor in what he will get for Weiss at the deadline.

Swayze11 · 05-14-2015, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

I understand this thinking but don't necessarily agree with it. Where this fails for me is that it relies on the notion that the 4M would have not been applied elsewhere... and then the statement true...

Now where the other side of the viewpoint is whats the price of deal that the 4M know handicaps you and prevents you from doing

Now Caged Great now more easily turns over his roster and moves pieces around so frequently that those handcuffs will be removed almost immediately and thus a perfect trade for this type of organization. Compared to an origination (Canes) that moves on a snails pace and seems to have a commodity of 100 that have to all be in agreement for every roster move ... such a 4M handcuff could cribble the organization and stuggle to find wiggle room by the trade deadline.

I think it's a great trade for all parties, much similar to the Bruins deal early... But I think the dance participants must fill those needs rather then the rebuilding ones.

That is fair, and you don't need to agree with that thinking. The snails pace model doesn't work. It have never worked in the CPHL... ever. All it takes is 1 year I suppose but the most active GMs are the ones winning. The ones making high risk deals and trading great players for futures are the ones with rings.

dsavillian · 05-14-2015, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swayze11

That is fair, and you don't need to agree with that thinking. The snails pace model doesn't work. It have never worked in the CPHL... ever. All it takes is 1 year I suppose but the most active GMs are the ones winning. The ones making high risk deals and trading great players for futures are the ones with rings.

And you know something about rings, right?

Right?

Swayze11 · 05-14-2015, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsavillian

And you know something about rings, right?

Right?

Hey, you and I both have the same number of rings!

dsavillian · 05-14-2015, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swayze11

Hey, you and I both have the same number of rings!

Yeah, but I don't make the high risk deals like you do!

Trading 61OV + a 2nd for nothing, so edgy!

Careful you don't cut anyone with your edge!

Swayze11 · 05-14-2015, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsavillian

Yeah, but I don't make the high risk deals like you do!

Trading 61OV + a 2nd for nothing, so edgy!

Careful you don't cut anyone with your edge!

Hanna Sniper · 05-14-2015, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swayze11

That is fair, and you don't need to agree with that thinking. The snails pace model doesn't work. It have never worked in the CPHL... ever. All it takes is 1 year I suppose but the most active GMs are the ones winning. The ones making high risk deals and trading great players for futures are the ones with rings.

You can say it has never worked... but then your definition of what is considered worked in not in line with mine.. My involvement in the CPHL is for pure enjoyment and pissing around with phototshop... 29 teams fail every season, a 96% chance whatever your model is didn't work if rings are your only goal