I think Ovechkin should get the Hart, do you? - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

CroFlames · 03-04-2015, 09:06 AM

I know a point is a point, and they all count as a point. In my book though, a goal is worth more than a secondary assist.

It annoys me that traditionally the Hart goes to the Art Ross winner, and I thought it was a travesty that Sedin won the Hart a few years back because he had like 90 assists. It's like the hockey writers are lazy. Sometimes the Hart doesn't need to go to the Art Ross winner.

I think 50 goals in a season is the new 70 goals. There are just so few 50 goals scorers anymore, and Ovie is well on his way this year. I love watching him light it up. Getzy is one of my other favs, and his spat with Getzy this year was just hilarious.

I will say that I put more stock into the Pearson/Lindsay award since it is voted by the players, but for what it's worth, I think Ovie should get the Hart this year, do you?

EldrickOnIce · 03-04-2015, 09:08 AM

No.

Habs will win East because of Carey Price.
Without him, they are a bubble team.

That is valuable.

codynw · 03-04-2015, 09:09 AM

Carey Price should win. I don't know if he will, but he should.

YogiBerra · 03-04-2015, 09:10 AM

Qt the least i hope he keeps up this pace and gets the art ross and the richard looks like people were exaggerating his decline he just needed a decent coach.

Imported_Aussie · 03-04-2015, 09:11 AM

It would have been between Kane and Price until Kane went down. Price has been amazing, carrying Montreal. Price wins the Vezina and the Hart IMO.

Erick Estrada · 03-04-2015, 09:19 AM

I personally value goals considerably higher than assists especially due to the 2nd assist padding point totals. You can definitely make a case for Ovechkin being not only the Hart Trophy winner but an underrated/underappreciated player as we are talking about a player with 465 goals in 744 games played. He's 5th all-time in goals scored per game over his career ahead of HOF players like Gretzky, Hull, Bure, etc and as prolific a goal scorer Stamkos is it's unlikely he will ever come close to Ovechkin's career numbers. He's simply one of the greatest goal scorers in the history of the NHL so if he won the Hart Trophy this season I would be fine with it as he's leading the league in points and goals.

For the record I voted yes only because I will never vote for a Habs goaltender to win the Hart after the debacle that cost Iginla his Hart trophy.

CroFlames · 03-04-2015, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I personally value goals considerably higher than assists especially due to the 2nd assist padding point totals. You can definitely make a case for Ovechkin being not only the Hart Trophy winner but an underrated/underappreciated player as we are talking about a player with 465 goals in 744 games played. He's 5th all-time in goals scored per game over his career ahead of HOF players like Gretzky, Hull, Bure, etc and as prolific a goal scorer Stamkos is it's unlikely he will ever come close to Ovechkin's career numbers. He's simply one of the greatest goal scorers in the history of the NHL so if he won the Hart Trophy this season I would be fine with it as he's leading the league in points and goals.

For the record I voted yes only because I will never vote for a Habs goaltender to win the Hart after the debacle that cost Iginla his Hart trophy.

Good point about the Habs goalie. That was robbery.

Although Iggy won the Pearson that year, which like I said in the OP is the Big One IMO.

troutman · 03-04-2015, 09:28 AM

His +/- has been all over the place in his career. Not bad this year.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8471214

Such an unusual player.

FlamesAddiction · 03-04-2015, 09:31 AM

I'm going with Tavares. Team performance will play into it and Tavares does it all. The drop off in forward talent after Tavares on the Islanders is also greater IMO than the drop off on the Capitals after Ovechkin.

N-E-B · 03-04-2015, 09:31 AM

No, Price is the clear winner in my mind. Case could be made for Ovechkin but I think Washington without Ovechkin would be better than Montreal without Price.

HelloHockeyFans · 03-04-2015, 09:36 AM

It's pretty amazing watching teams on the PK against OV. They know he's there on the half wall, they know he's going to get the pass, the goalie is anticipating it, but they still can't stop it most of the time.

HelloHockeyFans · 03-04-2015, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troutman

His +/- has been all over the place in his career. Not bad this year.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8471214

Such an unusual player.

Trotz deserves a lot of credit for the improvement. OV's such a different player now on the other side of the puck. Still isn't going to be nominated anytime soon for the Selke, but the improvement is there.

Street Pharmacist · 03-04-2015, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N-E-B

No, Price is the clear winner in my mind. Case could be made for Ovechkin but I think Washington without Ovechkin would be better than Montreal without Price.

Montreal without Price is Calgary (Stats wise)

troutman · 03-04-2015, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Montreal without Price is Calgary (Stats wise)

Is MTL doomed if they face another team with a great goalie, like NYR?

CroFlames · 03-04-2015, 09:43 AM

Ugh the love fest for Price in this thread is giving me a bad taste in my mouth!

Street Pharmacist · 03-04-2015, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troutman

Is MTL doomed if they face another team with a great goalie, like NYR?

I would say so. Tampa and Pittsburgh would be right in Montreal's Wheelhouse to play their rope-a-dope style. Boston would be a good match if Montreal didn't take up shop in their collective heads

codynw · 03-04-2015, 09:48 AM

If it goes to a forward, I think it should be Nash over Ovechkin. He's got almost as many goals and is a better all around player.

RyZ · 03-04-2015, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Ugh the love fest for Price in this thread is giving me a bad taste in my mouth!

I feel the exact same way about Ovechkin.

Price is by far the most valuble player right now.
Habs would not make the playoffs with an average goalie in net.

Inglewood Jack · 03-04-2015, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

He's 5th all-time in goals scored per game over his career ahead of HOF players like Gretzky, Hull, Bure, etc

just a minor personal gear grinder, I don't like when goals/points/wins/whatever per game are used as a measuring stick in any sport, because longevity (which is an important aspect of overall greatness) inevitably hurts "per game" type stats. if Gretzky quits hockey right after his time in Edmonton, then his ppg and similar numbers are probably totally unassailable, but then he never gets to accumulate the gaudy career totals which to me are vastly more important as a comparative against other players.

when Ovie retires we can evaluate him firstly on his final numbers, and his dominance during his prime...but I'm betting if he plays into his late 30's he'll drop below a lot of those other hall of famers he's ahead of in gpg.

GioforPM · 03-04-2015, 10:01 AM

Price has the edge right now. Tavares will get votes. Gio might have if he finiahsed on top of the defencemen points and Calgary made the POs.

I generally agree goals > assists simply because of the inclusion of second assists (of course, there are lots of exceptions where the second assist was more important or the first assist led to a tap in).

But I don't think goals automatically give one Hart status. Is Wideman better than Gio?

I also think FWIW, that the Hart should be changed to be for skaters only. Why? Because conceptually goalies have such an edge in being more valuable to their team, and they already have an award for best goalie. If you look at all of the teams, I bet a significant amount count the goalie as their MVP. Frankly, I think a lot of writers feel the asme way, which is why goalies don't win more often.