French Immersion School Opinions

[darklord700]

Just wanted to ask you guys about your opionion in the value of French immersion in this English dominat province. My kid will start Kindergarten next year and I always thougth a second language will be beneficial to most kids.

Then I came across this article.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...rticle8206738/

"Bilingualism isn’t easy, and unless you are immersed in another language outside of school, you may never become fluent. Also, French-immersion teachers are in extremely short supply, and not all of them are competent."

"But if you actually expect your child to wind up speaking fluent French, you might be disappointed. Attrition rates are high, and language proficiency is surprisingly low."

If you have attended or your kids are attending French immersion schools, please share your opionions with me. Thanks.

[troutman]

Benefits of Second Language Learning

http://education.alberta.ca/teachers.../benefits.aspx

My niece goes here:

http://schools.cbe.ab.ca/b621/#

Benefits of Learning French

http://www.cbe.ab.ca/programs/progra...n-Program.aspx

[prarieboy]

I don't have kids in French Imersion but I have heard that true immersion programs have resulted in students struggling to write university level english papers.

My kids are in a Spanish 50/50 program. Half the classes are in Spanish and half are in English. They don't speak a lot of spanish at homebut when someone speaks to them they know exactly what's being said and respond accordingly. It's pretty cool.

[calgarygeologist]

My kid started kindergarten in a French immersion school this year. The school is really good and he is learning quite a bit of French. Obviously it is still really early in his education life cycle but it should be a pretty good thing. I've always been told that if you know a second language it is much easier to learn additional languages so hopefully he will develop an interest in learning Spanish or something at a latter date.

[Sliver]

My kids are in French Immersion. It's a two-for-one education. They learn everything kids in English-only schools learn, times two.

It will open many opportunities for them in the future that people that only speak English won't have, particularly in Canada. So many government jobs require bilingualism. It's an ace up your sleeve throughout life. And it's free. It's GD amazing the opportunities we can have in this city if we choose to take them.

My wife is fluent, so that helps. When I help the kids with their homework, I have to have google translate up to help me help them. It's not ideal, but it works.

[Canehdianman]

I went through French Immersion.

I thought (and still think) that the language is useless to 99.999% of people.

That being said, my children will also be going through an immersion program of some sort (likely French, due to availability). The reason is simple, kids that attend an immersion program are generally high achievers and do well in life. As an added benefit, they will end up being friends with similarly high achieving immersion kids.

All of this is anecdotal. *shrug*

Worked for me though.

[Aeneas]

Originally Posted by prarieboy

I don't have kids in French Imersion but I have heard that true immersion programs have resulted in students struggling to write university level english papers.

My kids are in a Spanish 50/50 program. Half the classes are in Spanish and half are in English. They don't speak a lot of spanish at homebut when someone speaks to them they know exactly what's being said and respond accordingly. It's pretty cool.

Same.
We have one at Westgate still, cannot say enough good things about the experience.
No idea how the French immersion is going there though, sorry.

[JonDuke]

I went through late immersion (started in 7th grade) and although I'm not great at french, I can survive.

My son is in immersion and we'll place my daughter in as well. We practice with both at home and they're catching on fairly quickly.

[Drury18]

It's probably more beneficial to put your child into late immersion in Grade 7 as opposed to Kindergarten. That's what my plan is after trying and finding out early immersion wasn't a fit for us.

I put my daughter into French Immersion in Kindergarten and she (as well as the majority of the class) struggled to learn and write English because they were focusing on French instead of teaching the English fundamentals. Many of us parents pulled our children out after Kindergarten and went to an English only school as so many of the kids were behind on the writing and reading skills finishing Kindergarten.

Speaking to teachers in the English only school, they said unless the child is bilingual at home and has a strong foundation for both languages, immersion can be difficult that early because they are still learning the basics of English and now you are throwing a completely new language at them. Children without bilingualism at home do better with Grade 7 immersion (late immersion) and will still come out with a strong grasp of the French language.

[RyZ]

My niece is in french immersion but its just because it is the closest school to her house. When she tries to show off a bit and says something in french all the other young kids look at her like she has 2 heads.

Born, raised and living in Alberta, I cant see any reason why a kid would need to be fluent in french. Seems like a waste of time, money and resources. I haven't spoken or heard a word of french since I got out of junior high school and I suspect 99% of people are the same. Might be better for a kid to learn mandarin living outside of Quebec.

[Aeneas]

Originally Posted by Drury18

It's probably more beneficial to put your child into late immersion in Grade 7 as opposed to Kindergarten. That's what my plan is after trying and finding out early immersion wasn't a fit for us.

I put my daughter into French Immersion in Kindergarten and she (as well as the majority of the class) struggled to learn and write English because they were focusing on French instead of teaching the English fundamentals. Many of us parents pulled our children out after Kindergarten and went to an English only school as so many of the kids were behind on the writing and reading skills finishing Kindergarten.

Speaking to teachers in the English only school, they said unless the child is bilingual at home and has a strong foundation for both languages, immersion can be difficult that early because they are still learning the basics of English and now you are throwing a completely new language at them. Children without bilingualism at home do better with Grade 7 immersion (late immersion) and will still come out with a strong grasp of the French language.

I was a little nervous about the full immersion. That's one reason we decided on the 50 50 program. Both kids are way ahead of the average in reading and writing in English, so we have had no issues there.

[Drury18]

A 50-50 program does sound better, especially when you are talking about 4 year olds starting school. They still need to learn English in addition to the new language and the French Immersion we went to (Varsity Acres) really went full out French and almost forgot to teach them any English skills.

She's currently Grade 3 and about a grade ahead of the class now in reading and writing so I imagine when we try again in Grade 7 it will be a little more successful.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

I took full French Immersion though school. And here's my take: worth it, if your kid is an achiever and focused student at school. Not worth it if they aren't, as it will just make things harder for a kid who maybe is already struggling to put the effort in.

And I'm not really talking about how smart you think your kid is, but more, how motivated you think they will be. I was not a motivated student after grade 3 until grade 12 when I had to pull my socks up and get the marks I needed to get into the Universities I wanted to go to. But it certainly made it more difficult all the way through. If you feel your child is going to struggle getting motivated, learning social studies, math, science in a second language, takes a lot more effort to manage the second language and the material than just the material, so eventually something is going to give and get sacrificed unless the student is willing to give 110% every time (or is a genius, which I, obviously am not).

For me, it also made me struggle with grammer and spelling in English (although not to crippling levels or anything) until about University, and I will say I have seen limited benefit in my career from knowing French, although I haven't exactly chosen career paths that would leverage it. I do like that I can speak French, and surprisingly, I'd say I'm fluent or at least would be if I spent 2 weeks immersed in it, it seems to all come back really quickly.

Anyway, it's a tough call, because I think the tough part is trying to decide at Kindergarten age if you kid will be the "type" of student that can manage it and really benefit from it or not, or if it will be more trouble than it's worth. You could obviously pull them out later if you find your kids aren't the "A" type super motivated students I think really benefit from it, but at that point you get into other dynamics like them not wanting to separate from friends, or even have to switch schools which can be traumatic for a kid. My parents really considered moving me out of the program to start Junior High because it was evident I wasn't exactly excited about school, and they figured I'd do better and learn more if I dropped the program, which I'm sure would have been correct. But I fought them pretty hard on it because I didn't want to switch schools and have to make a whole bunch of new friends starting Junior High, something I was really scared to do.

Anyway, not sure if that helps, but that's my take having been through it. Really great idea, does open up some opportunities if your kid is a motivated student, but I'd say don't add the extra work / pressure if you think your kid isn't going to be a scholar type in grade school. The tough part is trying to figure that out when you kid is 5 years old, kind of hard.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Drury18

It's probably more beneficial to put your child into late immersion in Grade 7 as opposed to Kindergarten. That's what my plan is after trying and finding out early immersion wasn't a fit for us.

I put my daughter into French Immersion in Kindergarten and she (as well as the majority of the class) struggled to learn and write English because they were focusing on French instead of teaching the English fundamentals. Many of us parents pulled our children out after Kindergarten and went to an English only school as so many of the kids were behind on the writing and reading skills finishing Kindergarten.

Speaking to teachers in the English only school, they said unless the child is bilingual at home and has a strong foundation for both languages, immersion can be difficult that early because they are still learning the basics of English and now you are throwing a completely new language at them. Children without bilingualism at home do better with Grade 7 immersion (late immersion) and will still come out with a strong grasp of the French language.

Well you'd have to be pretty naive putting your kid into French immersion in kindergarten with the expectation that their English won't suffer. I think that's the first thing the school tells you in the parent orientation, in fact.

My daughter is now in Grade 3 and her English writing is very close to her peers in English-only schools. My son in Grade 2 would still be considered behind if I were to put him in an English school tomorrow, but that gap closes. Grade 3 is when they start introducing an English curriculum into the French immersion program.

A handful of students left the French program, but definitely over 90% of the kids that started in my daughter's kindergarten class are still there in grade three.

Finally, I don't think I would turn to a teacher in an English school for their opinion on French immersion programs. They just wouldn't know. I think we'd need to look at probability of kids going on to University from an immersion program versus English only. Cross reference that against socio-economic background, etc. There are just too many factors.

Also, this is the first I've ever heard that language is best taught to older kids. It's widely accepted and understood that small children pick up language faster than older people. The jury isn't close to out on that.

[troutman]

I've also read that studying music provides many of the same benefits as learning a second language.

http://www.pbs.org/parents/education...sic-education/

http://www.childrensmusicworkshop.co...sic-education/

[Bagor]

Kids are in the French system here in Ottawa and basically the ability to speak the second language in my opinion is not as much down to the school itself but their exposure to it through friends and family outside of school or in other words their amount of practice time and exposure to the language.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

I entered late immersion at Bishop Pinkham Jr High. It's personal for everyone, but I really appreciate knowing additional languages. I rarely use French day-to-day, but that's true of a lot of skills we have; I'd rather have it in my toolbox than not. It has helped me travel, gave me an edge in studying a couple of other languages, and lets you read the literature and watch French movies in their original context (which I do and enjoy). I value such things highly, so your priorities and preferences may vary.

One anecdote I remember hearing from my teachers at BP was that the late immersion students tended to be more careful about their study and use of French, whereas the early immersion group had more familiarity with the language and tended to take shortcuts. I know for a fact that, grammar-wise, we late immersion students were studying the same grammar concepts in grade 9 french class that the early immersion students were studying in their class. In short, I think that entering kids at late immersion is sufficient if your aim is to introduce them to a new language. This may alleviate some of the concerns voiced in the thread regarding early immersion and English composition.

The downside of late immersion is that your child may have to separate from his/her elementary friends. I'm unsure how schools are zoned now, but I went to an English speaking elementary (Cedarbrae) and only a few of us went to BP whereas the rest of our friends went to John Ware or Woodman or whatever. But at that age, it's not an insurmountable obstacle.

[chedder]

I was in French immersion all through school including 2 years in Quebec. It's a great thing to know a second language but for practicality, other than govt jobs, I'd way rather have learned Spanish. Now that that's an option in Calgary, that would be my vote. I never ever use my French skills that are, admittedly, waning.

[Locke]

I took Full French Immersion all the way from Kindergarten to Grade 12.

I'd definitely recommend it if your kid can handle it. Dont get me wrong, its not a 'mensa candidates only' type of thing, but its more work. You do things in French that everyone else does in English.

However, the opportunities bilingualism affords people are significant and it starts at University. In High School you can challenge exams for late-immersion and get those credits and usually a very high grade on classes you never took, then you turn around and put those high grades on University applications.

And then of course, if you do anything half-assed worth doing in University and your French is still passable you can pretty much fall ass-backward into just about any decent Government job.

I dont know if I buy the 'English will suffer' angle either. It could be just me but English was one of my strongest subjects despite being in French immersion.

As for the usefulness of the language, we live in Alberta so you'll rarely use your French day-to-day other than reading the French side of cereal boxes, but its handy when you travel. I've been to France, rural Quebec and Tahiti and knowing French certainly has its advantages.

Plus the ladies love it. Go to France and order for your wife in French and your're good as gold.

[nik-]

If I had a child and wanted them to learn another language (which I will want them to when I have one) it wouldn't be French. Have them learn Spanish or Mandarin.