The Sierra Club has found a new enemy to target: Big Billboard

[bizkitgto]

The Sierra Club is sounding more and more extremist. And just where are these bill boards (I've yet to see one in Calgary, as the article mentions)?

From Article -- "The notion that the sun causes climate change “has been totally debunked,” he says."

Has this been debunked? Because I'm sure the sun still has some influence on climate here on Earth, No?

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...against-truth/

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by bizkitgto

Because I'm sure the sun still has some influence on climate here on Earth, No?

Where is the "I don't want to live on this planet anymore?" thread when you need it. The sun is not causing climate change. Of course if there was no sun there would be no life on earth as the climate would be I hospitable. But there is no significant change in the sun that is causing the warming we have seen over the past few decades. It is not the sun driving the change. But I think people are smart enough to know that and are simply trying to muddy the waters so that Joe Q Public is confused and doesn't know what to believe.

Personally, I think the human species is too stupid, too greedy, too much still like a monkey, to act in the best interest of our children and grandchildren. When we are fighting a near consensus on climate change, the deniers are coming back with "I think it is the sun!" *facepalm* "No it is not the sun" "Oh so smarty pants over here thinks the sun plays no role in our climate. Stupid environmentalist. Ha Ha!" We can't win against this level of obfuscation. Which is why I gave up years ago. I still bike to work, still am vegetarian for environmental reasons, pay a premium for Bullfrog power... But I do it not because I have any belief that we can win this fight but because I would feel like an ass if I were not doing those things.

[Ashartus]

I think Sierra Club are going after the wrong group here though. Billboard companies shouldn't be in the business of censoring - anymore than they should be preventing religious or atheist groups from putting up billboards when those beliefs differ from those of the person owning the company. It's the badly misnamed Friends of Science that they should be focusing on.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by bizkitgto

The Sierra Club is sounding more and more extremist. And just where are these bill boards (I've yet to see one in Calgary, as the article mentions)?

From Article -- "The notion that the sun causes climate change “has been totally debunked,” he says."

Has this been debunked? Because I'm sure the sun still has some influence on climate here on Earth, No?

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...against-truth/

It's worded extremely poorly, which is why it's a stupid thing to put on a billboard, but what they are trying to say is correct. Fluctuations in the sun, such as flares and such, aren't causing climate change.

[bizkitgto]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Where is the "I don't want to live on this planet anymore?" thread when you need it. The sun is not causing climate change. Of course if there was no sun there would be no life on earth as the climate would be I hospitable. But there is no significant change in the sun that is causing the warming we have seen over the past few decades. It is not the sun driving the change. But I think people are smart enough to know that and are simply trying to muddy the waters so that Joe Q Public is confused and doesn't know what to believe.

Personally, I think the human species is too stupid, too greedy, too much still like a monkey, to act in the best interest of our children and grandchildren. When we are fighting a near consensus on climate change, the deniers are coming back with "I think it is the sun!" *facepalm* "No it is not the sun" "Oh so smarty pants over here thinks the sun plays no role in our climate. Stupid environmentalist. Ha Ha!" We can't win against this level of obfuscation. Which is why I gave up years ago. I still bike to work, still am vegetarian for environmental reasons, pay a premium for Bullfrog power... But I do it not because I have any belief that we can win this fight but because I would feel like an ass if I were not doing those things.

I've been back and fourth on man made climate change for years, and there's a lot of BS on both sides of the argument, and there's plenty of experts arguning on all sides of this debate and I'm not sure we will ever know what is actually the truth (politics have muddied the waters too much anyway). Beter pollution control, advances in energy efficiency and conservation are absolutely paramount and should be something we're striving to acheive.

Up until very recently, the idea that solar variability drove climate was taken as a given. It was only in recent decades that there was a claimed "deviation" between climate and the solar cycles. But as we have been finding out, more and more over the last 2+ years, is that much of this "deviation" could be due to the very "adjustments" that have been made to the temperature data, ostensibly to correct for various kinds of measurement errors.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by bizkitgto

I've been back and fourth on man made climate change for years, and there's a lot of BS on both sides of the argument, and there's plenty of experts arguning on all sides of this debate and I'm not sure we will ever know what is actually the truth (politics have muddied the waters too much anyway).

Over 97% of the experts support the theory of man made climate change. There really is no debate at all.

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

http://skepticalscience.com/debunkin...us-denial.html

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by bizkitgto

I've been back and fourth on man made climate change for years, and there's a lot of BS on both sides of the argument, and there's plenty of experts arguning on all sides of this debate and I'm not sure we will ever know what is actually the truth (politics have muddied the waters too much anyway). Beter pollution control, advances in energy efficiency and conservation are absolutely paramount and should be something we're striving to acheive.

Up until very recently, the idea that solar variability drove climate was taken as a given. It was only in recent decades that there was a claimed "deviation" between climate and the solar cycles. But as we have been finding out, more and more over the last 2+ years, is that much of this "deviation" could be due to the very "adjustments" that have been made to the temperature data, ostensibly to correct for various kinds of measurement errors.

No, there's not. There's lobbies and paid 'professionals' arguing against man made climate change, but in over 30,000 scientific papers about the subject last year, only one argued against it.

Sorry, you're listening to the wrong people. The smartest people on the planet have confirmed it, the UN and other world organizations are behind it. There is not good arguments on both sides. There is fact, and there is spin. That's the two sides right now.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by bizkitgto

I've been back and fourth on man made climate change for years, and there's a lot of BS on both sides of the argument, and there's plenty of experts arguning on all sides of this debate and I'm not sure we will ever know what is actually the truth (politics have muddied the waters too much anyway). Beter pollution control, advances in energy efficiency and conservation are absolutely paramount and should be something we're striving to acheive.

Up until very recently, the idea that solar variability drove climate was taken as a given. It was only in recent decades that there was a claimed "deviation" between climate and the solar cycles. But as we have been finding out, more and more over the last 2+ years, is that much of this "deviation" could be due to the very "adjustments" that have been made to the temperature data, ostensibly to correct for various kinds of measurement errors.

I've been back and forth on a flat earth too

[cKy]

Originally Posted by troutman

Over 97% of the experts support the theory of man made climate change. There really is no debate at all.

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

Unless you are in that 3%.

[Devils'Advocate]

Well, the debate regarding smoking causing cancer is pretty much settled, except for about 3%.

As for billboards being censors, I think they should have discretion about what they put up. If I had a company that put up billboard signs and someone contacted me asking me to put up an ad claiming that vaccines cause autism, I think it would be unethical of me to put that up. I could be KILLING someone by accepting that contract.

Friends of Science was founded out of the Canadian Society of Petroleum Geologists and while their funding is not something the group shares many critics claim they have a lot of funding ties from industry. Proper discourse is disrupted when money is paying for disinformation. I think those who spread information should, ethically if not legally, discern if the message they are portraying is dangerous.

[Devils'Advocate]

I attended a Humanist Association party last night. At one point they had a few announcements to make. One speaker said that the Humanist group he participated in was trying to put up billboards showcasing human rights abuses within our own borders. They wanted to put the billboard up across the street from the new Human Rights Museum in Winnipeg. The billboard company refused to put up the ad. There was nothing controversial about the ad... it was just a list of facts. They gave no reason for their refusal.

Billboard companies, like just about any other means of communication, are all about the profit. They know which side of their bread is buttered. If the ad is for government or corporations this is far greater chance of them going ahead even if they are spreading disinformation. Grass roots community organizations pooling scraps of money together are less likely to have their message picked up.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I attended a Humanist Association party last night. At one point they had a few announcements to make. One speaker said that the Humanist group he participated in was trying to put up billboards showcasing human rights abuses within our own borders. They wanted to put the billboard up across the street from the new Human Rights Museum in Winnipeg. The billboard company refused to put up the ad. There was nothing controversial about the ad... it was just a list of facts. They gave no reason for their refusal.

Billboard companies, like just about any other means of communication, are all about the profit. They know which side of their bread is buttered. If the ad is for government or corporations this is far greater chance of them going ahead even if they are spreading disinformation. Grass roots community organizations pooling scraps of money together are less likely to have their message picked up.

Billboard companies are also companies, and their viability requires them to avoid controversy

[Devils'Advocate]

They seem to be more willing to wade into controversy when the pockets are bigger....

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

They seem to be more willing to wade into controversy when the pockets are bigger....

That's just brutal. I take my comment back

[Matata]

what's really stunning is that its only 3%, which is absurdly small considering how much money that 3% has and what's at stake.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by bizkitgto

Has this been debunked? Because I'm sure the sun still has some influence on climate here on Earth, No?

Instead of listening to the "friends" of science, how about you listen to some actual scientists? When you're sick, do you go to "friends" of medicine, or do you go to an actual medical professional?

We are way past the stage where we discuss whether humans play a part in climate change or not. It shouldn't take a scientist to realize that pumping two centuries worth of toxic elements into the air and water might just have some sort of negative effects on our environment...all it takes is a little common sense. The debate now is what to do and how to go about it.

Frankly, this lobby group is an embarrassment to Calgary.