Question for Banff overnight backpackers

[timmy89]

Hello all! I am an experienced hiker but new to the world of overnight backpacking (I've only done car camping with basic Canadian Tire type gear before). I'm struggling with some of my gear purchase decisions and would love some input particularly on sleeping bags as I think I have everything else figured out. I haven't bought my tent yet but I'm looking at getting a Big Agnes Copper Spur UL3. It's pricey but it is ultra light weight and has great reviews. For reference, the type of backpacking I'm looking to do at this point is fairly basic, mostly 1-2 night weekend trips in Banff, heading to locations such as Assiniboine, Egypt/Scarab lakes, Mystic Lake, etc., usually in late June, July and August.

Weight and packability is a huge concern for me; especially as I'm not a big guy (5'7", 130 pounds) so the idea of carrying 50 pounds on my back all day is a non-starter. The sleeping bag question is tough because of packability. It seems a lot of the bags I am looking at will consume an enormous amount of my pack space unless I strap it to the outside of my pack.

I was looking at using a very small lightweight bag such as the Marmot Nanowave 45 (EN men's rating of 10 C) or McKinley X-treme Light 600 (same rating, and compacts a bit smaller to the size of a 1 L nalgene bottle) and then using a Sea to Summit Reactor Extreme sleeping bag liner which claims to increase the insulating factor significantly. I have heard conflicting views on the effectiveness of these liners though, and am concerned that this won't keep me warm enough. I also don't really know what kind of overnight temps to expect in the areas I mentioned during summer nights.

Alternately, the most packable (and reasonably affordable! I'm not going to spend $500 on a sleeping bag!) option that offers good insulation that I have found so far is the North Face Furnace 20 bag (EN rated to -7). This bag is down and stuffs reasonably small, but would definetly require me to upgrade my pack to a 50 L from the 40 L pack I'm currently using.

I would love any comments or insight from experienced backpackers on expected overnight summer temps in Banff, effectiveness of these insulating liners, alternate suggestions on sleeping bags, or anything else you want to throw out there!

Thanks so much in advance!!

[Northendzone]

I have no direct input, but I find the staff at both mec and campers village to usually be quite helpful in making choices about gear.

[strombad]

Good advice:
Go to MEC.

Having worked there myself, I can assure you that the ridiculous amount of training and courses one goes through equips many of them with excellent knowledge on a range of stuff. Plus, MEC stuff is still built really well, comparatively inexpensive, and will quite literally last you the rest of your life (thanks to their warranty program on MEC brand stuff!).

Plus, if you gear up and find there's something you don't like, you can return it with no problems at all.

So, I guess my advice is: MEC brand gear.

Have you thought about other gear? Stove? Rope? Knives? Etc?

[GGG]

You base weight (all gear excluding food and water)for all of your gear does not need to be more than 15lbs.

For a sleeping bag the liners are almost useless compared to what they weigh. For the Rockies you need a 0C bad minimum. Take a look at the MEC Merlin bags for reasonably affordable, quality down bags. An alternative is a quilt. Www.enlightenedequipment.com makes really high quality sleeping quilts at a reasonable price. I have ones for my kids as they wouldnt sleep in their bags.

For a pack if you can keep your total weight under 30lbs the Osprey Exos series is great and lightweight. 30lbs is 15lbs gear, 5days food 2lbs per day and 2 L of water.

One of the biggest ways to lighten your load is bring less stuff. So for cooking use a canister stove instead of a white gas stove and just bring 1 pot and one spoon and eat out of the pot or freezer bags. You dddont need a fork, spoon, plate, knife, and 2 pots, and a frying pan.

For clothes you only need the following
Worn
Pants
Shirt
Socks

Packed
Rain coat
Rain\wind pants
Insulation layer (fleece or down jacket)
Underwear ( 1 pair)
Socks 1 pair
long johns

You wash the socks and underwear you aren't wearing while you go. you wash your only shirt as you hike. Anything more than the above is a luxury and extra weight. For a rain coat that is low cost and Lightweight I recommend the Outdoor Research helium. Only 7oz and since here you get more storms than continuous rain the lack of pitzips isn't a big deal.

Start a spreadsheet and put down everything you are going to put in your pack. The cut, cut, cut. If you are interested I can post my gear list which is about 10lbs total gear assuming I split the tent weight with someone else and is as fully functional as others heavier packs. So don't worry about 50, go for 25 and at most 30 total weight.

[GreenLantern]

You have a lot of specific questions so it is good you started a thread, I am putting this link in here just for reference as you may find some helpful tips in this thread as well:

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...ht=backpacking

GGG recommend the Exos for me in that thread and he was bang on, highly recommended. Thanks again for that GGG.

You may feel that the people in here are a bit extreme at first, but honestly packing light is going to make a huge difference in the long run, so take their advice.

I also have a lot of MEC stuff including camping gear like a tent, multiple sleeping bags/pads, clothes etc.. their stuff is good, inexpensive, and as others have said they stand behind their products. That being said, most high end companies will.

[timmy89]

Thanks for the input so far! I'll definitely be getting some advice from local stores as well, but thought I would get some unbiased advice first that isn't driven by what they happen to have in store. The sleeping bag question is the one I'm least clear on at this point, I have already gotten great advice on most other items I need.

I think I already have a good packing list, but I certainly wouldn't mind seeing anyone elses. I'm planning on going pretty minimalist to keep weight down. At first I'll just be doing single nights and am thinking that I don't really need a stove. I'm assuming the main reason to take a stove is so that you can carry lightweight dehydrated food?

Any and all comments are appreciated

[Russic]

I'm 5'7" and 10 lbs heavier than you and I didn't find a 50lbs pack to be nearly as bad as I thought it would be (did a 3 day hike a few years back). I did go to MEC and I did get some great advice on pack management and weight dispersal. The load is mainly carried on your waist, so it's not as bad as it seems. In hindsight I could have gotten in lighter, but it was very doable.

[Nage Waza]

Most of my experience is from tree planting and living in a tent, for weeks at a time (early 90s).

Don't skimp on your sleeping bag or tent. Staying warm and dry is vital.

I would love to go this summer as well, not sure if I can pull it off due to work.

Have fun!

[undercoverbrother]

The only thing I would add to GGG's post is socks. I would bring a 3rd pair in a water tight bag. You can not understate the importance of socks, clean/dry.

Also, I don't think it has been commented on, but get a ruck liner (a waterproof bag for you pack).

Finally, bring a pair of lightweight sandals or flipflops. At the end of the day there is nothing better than walking around camp in something other than you boots. Give both you feet and boots a chance to dry out.

I assume you know good blister control/prevention.

Let me know if you don't I have +++ experience with that.

Have fun.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Finally, bring a pair of lightweight sandals or flipflops. At the end of the day there is nothing better than walking around camp in something other than you boots. Give both you feet and boots a chance to dry out.

Real Sandles and Crocs are heavy so I go with a homemade pair.

The lightest sandles you can get are homemade. If you have a blue foam sleep pad at home you trace around your feet and leave a piece for the strap as well. Then duck tape over the foam to make the strap for the flip flops and duck tape over the sole. I think my pair weighs about 2 ounces.

(As you can see I am a little OCD to save weight)

The other thing you can do is hike in trail runners instead of boots. This is a personal decision and it depends how good of shape your feet are in, how strong your ankles are etc. I hated boots, always had blister issues, when I lightened up my pack and started running my feet and ankles could support the weight without the need for boots. By switching to trail runners I solved my blister issue, camp shoe issue, stream crossing issue, etc. I don't even worry anymore about getting my feet because with trail runners they dry out within about 30 minutes so I just crash on through the mud.

Its a different philosophy then the big heavy boots but I find it has a lot of benefits.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by GGG

Real Sandles and Crocs are heavy so I go with a homemade pair.

The lightest sandles you can get are homemade. If you have a blue foam sleep pad at home you trace around your feet and leave a piece for the strap as well. Then duck tape over the foam to make the strap for the flip flops and duck tape over the sole. I think my pair weighs about 2 ounces.

(As you can see I am a little OCD to save weight)

The other thing you can do is hike in trail runners instead of boots. This is a personal decision and it depends how good of shape your feet are in, how strong your ankles are etc. I hated boots, always had blister issues, when I lightened up my pack and started running my feet and ankles could support the weight without the need for boots. By switching to trail runners I solved my blister issue, camp shoe issue, stream crossing issue, etc. I don't even worry anymore about getting my feet because with trail runners they dry out within about 30 minutes so I just crash on through the mud.

Its a different philosophy then the big heavy boots but I find it has a lot of benefits.

To each his own, I can't say I notice the weight of a pair of $2 foam flip flops. I also don't want to sleep on a foamie with two foot holes cut into it.


I agree on the lighter boots.

[timmy89]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm not as worried about the small stuff like how many socks, what type of camp shoes; I'll learn as I go and figure out how much weight I'm comfortable with, and what I'm willing to sacrifice or not. Right now I just have to figure out about sleeping bags and backpacks mainly. I found a really great bag, a Gregory Z55, I really liked the suspension back panel on this one, but they only had it in a size large, I need a medium or small. Also going to poke around this week and see what other options are out there in the $200-300 range for down sleeping bags in the 0 to -7 degree range. The western mountaineering ones at MEC look awesome, but too much $$$.

[Northendzone]

^ i know it is always tempting to try and save money, but be careful - being cold while camping will not be much fun........

to me, it always seems worth it to spend the extra money and get good gear that fits properly and keeps you warm and dry

[strombad]

Originally Posted by timmy89

Thanks for the input guys. I'm not as worried about the small stuff like how many socks, what type of camp shoes; I'll learn as I go and figure out how much weight I'm comfortable with, and what I'm willing to sacrifice or not. Right now I just have to figure out about sleeping bags and backpacks mainly. I found a really great bag, a Gregory Z55, I really liked the suspension back panel on this one, but they only had it in a size large, I need a medium or small. Also going to poke around this week and see what other options are out there in the $200-300 range for down sleeping bags in the 0 to -7 degree range. The western mountaineering ones at MEC look awesome, but too much $$$.

BUY MEC BRAND.

Aquila -7, 575 down fill
>$220

You'll save yourself over $100 over the WM bag (which you don't need based on your situation) and the weight difference is 0.4KG.

You aren't likely at level where you need to be worrying about 0.4KG considering the price difference between the two.

I'm not sure if you're doing this, so correct me if I'm wrong and I'll apologise, but please don't get hung up on expensive brand names. Just because it's an expensive brand name (WM, Patagonia, Northface, Asprey, etc) does NOT mean it's better, and in many cases leads to a lot of wasted funds. You do not need top of the line name brand stuff for what you're doing.

[timmy89]

Originally Posted by strombad

BUY MEC BRAND.

Aquila -7, 575 down fill
>$220

You'll save yourself over $100 over the WM bag (which you don't need based on your situation) and the weight difference is 0.4KG.

You aren't likely at level where you need to be worrying about 0.4KG considering the price difference between the two.

I'm not sure if you're doing this, so correct me if I'm wrong and I'll apologise, but please don't get hung up on expensive brand names. Just because it's an expensive brand name (WM, Patagonia, Northface, Asprey, etc) does NOT mean it's better, and in many cases leads to a lot of wasted funds. You do not need top of the line name brand stuff for what you're doing.

Thanks Strombad, that's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. I'll go by MEC sometime in the next few days and check it out. It sounds very comparable to the North Face Furnace 20 (-7C rating), 550 down fill bag for $210 I was looking at at Atmosphere.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by timmy89

Thanks Strombad, that's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. I'll go by MEC sometime in the next few days and check it out. It sounds very comparable to the North Face Furnace 20 (-7C rating), 550 down fill bag for $210 I was looking at at Atmosphere.

Enjoy!