High Speed Rail - Calgary/Edmonton

[Azure]

So, with Obama proposing to build a better rail system in the US, I was thinking about the proposal to build a high speed train between Calgary/Edmonton.

Personally, I think it would be a great idea, especially right now where the economy is a bit slow. It would create quite a few jobs, and another industry that would have to look after the rail system.

I realize that we're already running a deficit, which I don't like, but as soon as oil/gas starts going up again, and Alberta starts turning another surplus, this should be a project we should invest in.

I know I'll be contacting my MLA about it.

As we all know, the QE2 has a lot of cars going back and forth each day, so not only would it be beneficial environmentally, but it would also save people a lot of money.

A win/win all around.

The most advanced proposals are in the Calgary–Edmonton Corridor in Alberta. The cities are approximately 260 km apart (about 3 hours by car), and are connected by the Queen Elizabeth II Highway.

A study by the Van Horne institute concluded that "high speed rail would bring significant benefits to the Calgary–Edmonton corridor and Alberta as a whole".

The report also stated that the project would "generate between CAD $ 3.7 and $ 6.1 billion in quantifiable benefits". The study considered three options:
Upgrade of an existing Canadian Pacific freight route to allow trains up to 240 km/h using Bombardier's JetTrain, costing approximately $ 1.8 billion.

A new dedicated passenger route, known as the "Green Field" route, also using the Jet Train, and costing approximately $ 2.2 billion.
An electrified version of the Green Field route, using TGV style trains running at 300 km/h, costing approximately $ 3.7 billion.

The report found that there was little incremental benefit in running at 300 km/h rather than 240 km/h, and so recommended the first option.
On September 22, 2006 it was announced the Provincial government was deploying video cameras along a stretch of the Queen Elizabeth Highway to determine just how many cars travel between the three cities.[7]
Some figures quoted for the cost of the project are far larger than the above. For example, Vue Weekly gives the cost as "$ 3 - $ 5 billion".[8]

The Calgary Herald announced on April 18, 2007 that the provincial government had purchased land in downtown Calgary for a possible station or terminal.[9] The provincial government also maintains ownership of the top deck of Edmonton's High Level Bridge so a potential high speed rail line can reach downtown Edmonton.

The Calgary Herald has put on a "special topic section" about the prospect of a high-speed rail in Alberta over the 2007 Thanksgiving long weekend. It is called "On Track: Alberta's Bullet Train Debate."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Canada

[Jayems]

I bet by the time you sit on the train and wait for it to leave (plus time waiting to get on), make stops in red deer and whatever other delays, coupled with the cost of a ticket, it would probably be comparable to just driving.

[Bob]

Go for broke. Maglev, baby.

[Muta]

I always have been, and always will be, in full support of this. There's too much movement of people between the two cities to not justify a train. Going from downtown Calgary to downtown Edmonton by train, for many people, especially without having to go to the airport for anything, just seems too logical to not undertake. Especially for corporate Alberta.

[edn88]

I'm down with building it - just because. And the terminals should be at the new Flames rink and the new greaser rink.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Bob

Go for broke. Maglev, baby.

I agree. If you're going to do it, do it the best way possible. Make it incredibly high speed. If other places in the world can do it, surely a single direct route between these two cities should too.

[Azure]

Yeah, the plan should be to make it as fast as possible.

I don't care if it costs $10 billion over 5 years to build a train that is capable of going 600km/h.....just build it.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

So just two terminals - Calgary and Edmonton? Wouldn't it make more sense to have it connect to Fort Mac as well?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

So just two terminals - Calgary and Edmonton? Wouldn't it make more sense to have it connect to Fort Mac as well?

You would probably build one in Red Deer as well. I would assume going all the way up to FortMac would cost a lot more money.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Jayems

I bet by the time you sit on the train and wait for it to leave (plus time waiting to get on), make stops in red deer and whatever other delays, coupled with the cost of a ticket, it would probably be comparable to just driving.

Assuming the train goes 240 km/hr and you can drive 120 km/hr (your results may vary), you're looking at about 1 hr and 15 minutes to take the train to Edmonton (assuming no stops). Driving would take about 2 hrs and 30 min. That's a cushion of a 1 hr and 15 minutes to fart around with stops in Red Deer and waiting times.

The cost of the ticket versus the cost of driving yourself is a different story. I have no idea how much the train would run you and can't pretend to speculate. Plus the economics are thrown off if you're traveling with more than just yourself.

On the other hand, taking the train has other benefits. You can sleep during the trip or (presumably) flip out a tray and do some work. Both of these activities are generally frowned upon by the Sheriffs along QEII.

Taking the train would also help get cars off the road and make it a better commute for those who are on the road.

I say they need to get a rail link and they need to get it soon.

[Azure]

And if they build it, they better not use the existing rail line.

Build a new one that is better than any rail line in the whole world.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

So just two terminals - Calgary and Edmonton? Wouldn't it make more sense to have it connect to Fort Mac as well?

You'd be adding like 450km of Rail line to service another center with like 120,000 people at the absolute most with workers. Whereas between Calgary and Edmonton it's 300km to service a population of 2.5 million.

So tell me how it makes sense to justify that extra cost. Fort Mac just needs better infastructure within the city itself and a better hiway to get there.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by fredr123

On the other hand, taking the train has other benefits. You can sleep during the trip or (presumably) flip out a tray and do some work. Both of these activities are generally frowned upon by the Sheriffs along QEII.

The other thing is if you are going downtown, you don't have to search for parking. If you're staying overnight, you don't have to pay for hotel parking.

[wooohooo]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

The other thing is if you are going downtown, you don't have to search for parking. If you're staying overnight, you don't have to pay for hotel parking.

But you also don't have the use of a car to get around the city. For me, I'd prefer to take the train - but it's more a need that I need a car to get around town so I'd drive.

There's probably a lot of University students that go to UA and vice versa and going back home to visit is probably easier to train. But if you're just visiting some friends or just getting out of the city, driving is probably more ideal.

This pretty much all comes down to the cost of a ticket taking the train vs. bus vs. driving.
Taking a greyhound is around ~$40, and a bit more for Red arrow. I'm going to bet that a train ticket will be ~$60.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

You'd be adding like 450km of Rail line to service another center with like 120,000 people at the absolute most with workers. Whereas between Calgary and Edmonton it's 300km to service a population of 2.5 million.

So tell me how it makes sense to justify that extra cost. Fort Mac just needs better infastructure within the city itself and a better hiway to get there.

Fort Mac seems to be expanding anyway. There is a ton of people traveling to and from Fort Mac, far more then the average city with it's population. It's airport gets more passengers then Regina.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by wooohooo

Taking a greyhound is around ~$40, and a bit more for Red arrow. I'm going to bet that a train ticket will be ~$60.

The train would be a lot more than that. Of course the trade off would be, the train won't get held up in traffic getting out and into the two cities. It would be more appealing to business type travelers who can get between the two cities and have a 4 hour meeting in an 8 hour day.

I don't know if North Americans especially those of us in the West are really ready to embrace train travel in favor of car because traffic here still isn't that bad and we're used to travelling 2-3 hours to get somewhere. Plus when we get there, we need a good way to get around and right now neither Calgary or Edmonton has that established very well.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Fort Mac seems to be expanding anyway. There is a ton of people traveling to and from Fort Mac, far more then the average city with it's population. It's airport gets more passengers then Regina.

Yeah, so than why not spend the money to improve the airport? The thing with Fort MacMurray is that the people aren't just going back to Edmonton or Calgary, they're often looking to go further than that, so air travel is still the best option to go that far with the number of people looking to get there. A high speed rail line that long needs to be connecting centers to service a population of 10 million. I can't see that many people living in that area in the next 100 years...by which time there should be a better option for mass transit.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Azure

And if they build it, they better not use the existing rail line.

Build a new one that is better than any rail line in the whole world.

I say we build a monorail!

[mykalberta]

I am all for it. Although for me to use it rather than drive, the cost would have to be $50 or less. Else why would I not drive.

If it was 40$ I would use it at least once a month.

[wooohooo]

Or just connect our LRT's together. It'd only take many hours, but then we could be energy efficient! That's the 'in' thing now right?

Each city build half. But Edmonton will probably want to build underground, then run out of money and can only build to Leduc.