Whose downfall was the biggest: Sutter or Gillis? - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Temporary_User · 04-09-2014, 02:19 PM

Coming in their situations were different, but in the end they both had their fanbases irate and calling for their heads.

Will Gillies be remembered in Vancouver for icing a competitive team for so many years or for how he handled his goaltending fiasco?

Will Sutter be remembered in Calgary for icing a competitive team for so many years or for his final few trades?

$ven27 · 04-09-2014, 02:23 PM

Both are pretty bad, but Gillis' treatment of Schneider and Luongo stands out more.

Gaskal · 04-09-2014, 02:24 PM

The Phaneuf trade was the biggest wart for me.

Then Toronto goes full Oiler on him and pretty much ruins the kid. Hartley would've set him straight. I think.

Otto-matic · 04-09-2014, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

Coming in their situations were different, but in the end they both had their fanbases irate and calling for their heads.

Will Gillies be remembered in Vancouver for icing a competitive team for so many years or for how he handled his goaltending fiasco?

Will Sutter be remembered in Calgary for icing a competitive team for so many years or for his final few trades?

As a Flames fan, Sutter will be remembered for quite a few of his great trades and bringing the team back to respectability. The final trades he made - left a dent on his record but I still think he never hated as much as Gillis was near the end.

Gillis will be known for his arrogance in trades, media. The goaltending fiasco, will live in the memories of Canuck fans for quite some time. Trading away two great goaltenders for magic beans.

Coach · 04-09-2014, 02:27 PM

Gillis.

Sutter went crazy after that injury plagued season, but a lot of the return to glory for the Flames is attributed to him and his early days with the club.

Gillis inhereted a Stanely Cup contender to which he barely added anything. And then the more he tried to do after the fact, the more he effed it up. Losing two starting goalies without getting any shred of help back is just plain awful.

krynski · 04-09-2014, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaskal

The Phaneuf trade was the biggest wart for me.

Then Toronto goes full Oiler on him and pretty much ruins the kid. Hartley would've set him straight. I think.

I don't think so. I feel no matter what you do for that kid, he will always behave the same way. I think it's a character flaw, thats my 2 cents....it's sad that 2 cents isn't even worth anything anymore.

Enoch Root · 04-09-2014, 02:28 PM

I think they are different for one reason: I think Sutter was mostly responsible for getting the Flames to their heights before subsequently screwing it up.

Conversely, I think Gillis inherited a solid team, and then had the gift of having the Sedins suddenly go from being 70-80 point guys to 100 point guys. I always thought Gillis was over-rated and credited for a team and situation that he didn't create.

The one thing I will give Gillis is that he recognized the change in the rules after the lockout and how it would change the game. He got his team to dive and draw penalties, and he focused the team on taking advantage of the PP. For two years at least, that worked very well. That was his one good move.

Gaskal · 04-09-2014, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krynski

I don't think so. I feel no matter what you do for that kid, he will always behave the same way. I think it's a character flaw, thats my 2 cents....it's sad that 2 cents isn't even worth anything anymore.

Well he sure as heck will now!

He definitely had attitude issues with us and they might have or might not have been fixable but Toronto removed any doubt by making him captain in the most heavily scrutinized pressure-cooker hockey market in Canada - and then signing him 7/7. Jebus.

Phanuthier · 04-09-2014, 02:32 PM

Honestly in the past 20 years, Darryl is the one guy that brought back respectability to the organization. Does anyone actually remember the 2002-03 season? What was it, 6/7 years of playoffs with Darryl? Zero under Coates, zero under Button, zero under Feaster... we'll see about the next guy.

Fighting Banana Slug · 04-09-2014, 02:37 PM

Gillis without a doubt. Sutter should be credited with a massive turnaround, followed by a slide and a set of terrible decisions. Gillis should be credited with nothing other than inheriting a stacked team, followed by a slide and a set of terrible decisions.

Five-hole · 04-09-2014, 02:42 PM

Has Gillis made a good trade in his tenure? Sutter at least had a few.

Major Major · 04-09-2014, 02:43 PM

Not that it has much to do with the question, but Gillis isn't going to be coaching a team to a Cup anytime soon. Essentially, the Gillis name is one that will be lost in hockey irrelevance probably as soon as 2 months from now, never to be heard of again. Daryl is somewhat iconic in this league and the Sutter name will live on for generations.

sureLoss · 04-09-2014, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Has Gillis made a good trade in his tenure? Sutter at least had a few.

They were discussing it on the Fan 960 the other day. I think they came to the conclusion, that Gillis' best trade was trading two C level prospects for Ehrhoff.

neo45 · 04-09-2014, 02:47 PM

Sutter was a good GM all things considered. At least he built what he later ruined, whereas Gillis came into a dream scenario for a GM

Sutter is hugely responsible for our current solid drafting and development. He made bad picks in the first round yes, but he expanded the scouting department and was a driving force in getting the farm team to Abbotsford. When he became GM the scouting department was dismal and now it is looking very good. Some big team literally had 10x the scouting department the Flames did.

Worst thing he did was hiring his brother to coach

TheDebaser · 04-09-2014, 02:50 PM

One was doing a job he shouldn't have been doing. Sutter will be remembered as a great coach and a bad GM.

The other was doing his job badly and got canned for it. He really should be remembered fondly by the fanbase for his success but ultimately I think it'll become a bit of a meme to call him a bad GM.

jg13 · 04-09-2014, 02:51 PM

Gillis was worse in my opinion.

Hodgeson for Kassian stands out to me the most next to the goalie fiasco.

Poe969 · 04-09-2014, 02:54 PM

I think it should be judged by the amount of riots caused by the hockey teams they were in charge of. Red mile vs. the disgrace that was vancouver...Gillis wins this one by far.

ComixZone · 04-09-2014, 02:56 PM

Sutter built something, then failed to get it over the top and ultimately sunk the team.

Gillis didn't build anything, failed to get the team he inherited over the top, and ruined what was built previously.

Sutter >> Gillis

Plett25 · 04-09-2014, 03:09 PM

Sutter's downfall was greater. He actually accomplished something as a GM, then crashed and burned. Sutter is like a plane that took off, got to a respectable height, then crashed into a mountain.

Gillis never accomplished anything. He is like a plane that crashed on take-off. He never got any elevation, so his downfall wasn't significant.

Sutter's overall tenure as a GM was ok, compared to when he took over, the Flames were probably in slightly better shape after he left (although it would have been great if he had left a year or two earlier)

Gillis' overall tenure was a disaster. He took a Stanley Cup contender and turned them into hot garbage.

goodyear · 04-09-2014, 03:12 PM

Gillis for sure IMO.

Had two starting goalies and traded both away.