The Skyline discussion thread; Calgary, US, World; I ain't even care, just discuss

[jayswin]

Discussion could fit in with the SSP thread or the photography thread, but whenever discussion over city skylines comes up there seems to be a few CP'ers interested. So after SebC's post in the photography thread, I'd though I'd see if anyone's interested.

His post about Charlotte as a comparable to Calgary had me google imaging that city to see for myself.

This picture makes it look weird. A few tall buildings that would stack up against the Bow tower and others, then almost zero medium buildings, a smattering of tiny buidlings, a massive football stadium, and the rest of the space appears to look like a zombie apocalypse rolled through ten years ago, leaving behind overgrown shrubs and deserted streets.

I think with America's disastrous recession and their love of state of the art football/baseball stadiums, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of American cities have this vibe going on.

[jayswin]

Thought it would be cool if CP travelers/photographers weighed in with their thoughts/photos of cool/ugly/photogenic/weird American downtown cores.

[Northendzone]

Is that big tower the NASCAR corporate office?

[jayswin]

btw this is what a sick flameswin gets you....a thread about skylines.

[jayswin]

Also, SebC's post from the photography thread, to spark discussion...

It's not just you.

IMHO

Calgary beats:

Baltimore
Cincinnati
Colombus
Denver
Detroit
Indianapolis
Jacksonville
Kansas City
Las Vegas
Louisville
Memphis
Milwaukee
Nashville
Oklahoma City
Phoenix
Portland
Providence
Sacramento
San Antonio
San Diego
St. Louis
Tampa Bay
Washington

Comparables:

Boston
Charlotte
Cleveland
Miami
Minneapolis
Pittsburgh

Better than Calgary:

Chicago
Dallas
Houston
Los Angeles
New York City
Philadelphia
San Francisco
Seattle

We're smaller (metro pulation) than all of these cities, and no American city too small to make the list is comparable or better. On the list of comparables, many of those have one or two top buildings that are taller than Calgary's, but the height drops off faster.

Throw in the Canadian cities, and we're ahead of Montreal, Vancouver, and Ottawa too, only behind Toronto.

Worldwide, there's only a few cities that beat us that aren't above our population class. Abu Dhabi and Doha come to mind. Panama City and Wuxi have taller skylines with only slightly higher populations.

[psicodude]

I'm not a huge fan of L.A.'s skyline as it's not particularly large and most of the buildings are really old and plain. Not cool old like NYC or Chicago, but old as in the 70's.

I was in Boston a couple years ago and loved the skyline. The mix of new and old, big and small, really worked for me. The entire city has an really cool vibe actually.

[Vulcan]

I remember visiting Tucson years ago. It was and is about the same size as Calgary and the tallest building was the Greyhound bus depot. It's a little better now. Nice setting though.

Spoiler!

[nfotiu]

Something that has always been a curiosity to me is why do so many Calgarians work downtown? I live in a white collar suburb of a mid-sized US city, and it seems about 70-80% of the people I know either work from home exclusively or have some sort of combination of home-based+travel, or work-from-home and spend some time in hotelling space in an office. I only know a couple who would commute downtown on any kind of regular basis.

It wasn't always the case, it has shifted dramitically in the last 10-15 years. Companies are seeing how much cheaper it is to not have office space for everyone, and employees generally appreciate the financial savings in transportation, meals and dry-cleaning and the time saved by not commuting.

Is there something about the oil and gas industry that keeps everyone working in the office? Or is Calgary destined to see a similar shift and have a bunch of empty towers in 10-15 years?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Something that has always been a curiosity to me is why do so many Calgarians work downtown? I live in a white collar suburb of a mid-sized US city, and it seems about 70-80% of the people I know either work from home exclusively or have some sort of combination of home-based+travel, or work-from-home and spend some time in hotelling space in an office. I only know a couple who would commute downtown on any kind of regular basis.

It wasn't always the case, it has shifted dramitically in the last 10-15 years. Companies are seeing how much cheaper it is to not have office space for everyone, and employees generally appreciate the financial savings in transportation, meals and dry-cleaning and the time saved by not commuting.

Is there something about the oil and gas industry that keeps everyone working in the office? Or is Calgary destined to see a similar shift and have a bunch of empty towers in 10-15 years?

There is some push out of the core with most EPCs, Imperial, CP moving out. However I think there are a few things keeping most of it downtown.

The first is that its one industry that is very interconnected but made of lots of companies. I think this leads to more concentration then compared to say google or microsoft where all the smaller companies follow one head office.

The second is transit and traffic. Calgarys entire system is designed to funnel people to and from downtown. Its like Seattle in this regard. So downtown has heavily subsidized transportation relative to other areas. This leads to more density.

Calgary also isnt quite big enough and the job market isnt stable enough to move where you work. So for companies trying to retain talent downtown makes sense. This is where imperials move out of the core is very interesting. How many people will be lost over the first few years of the move.

Oil and Gas is also resistant to work at home options although this is becoming more flexible.

I do agree that this should change over the next 25 years but will probably take a crash to change companies ways.

[SebC]

Charlotte is one of those cities that I said was comparable to Calgary because its tallest is taller than ours, but ours don't drop off as fast.

[JD]

Worldwide, there's only a few cities that beat us that aren't above our population class. Abu Dhabi and Doha come to mind. Panama City and Wuxi have taller skylines with only slightly higher populations.

Just to comment on this part, Doha definitely has that striking dense core that compares to Calgary. Abu Dhabi, well, this place is a mixed bag. It has really tall buildings, but they're spread around the city. Yet, if you look at the density of small skyscrapers, it is impressive, but so many of them are older and almost falling apart. And then the visibility here almost always prevents one from seeing the whole skyline in one vista. Yesterday was one of the rare clear days you could see it from a distance.

Calgary is one of those cities where you land at the airport and see the downtown and go, "Holy crap!". The height and density of our city is impressive no matter what the population. It would be nice to borrow some of Abu Dhabi's talent.... it's so spread around that the total is less than the sum of its parts. I love many of the towers in this town.

Of course, Dubai has that reputation of having all the crazy skyscrapers, and it's really something to see, but it has the same "problem" as Abu Dhabi, where things are built all over the place. The marina district is crazy impressive on its own, but it's 15 km away from the area surrounding the Burj Khalifa, which is somewhat thinner as far as density goes (comparatively). Depends on the angle you're looking from. If they could have put everything in the same area, only cities like Toronto, NYC, and Chicago would compare.

Anyway, just some rambling from the Middle East. No matter what they build out here, nothing can compare to a Calgary sunrise or sunset with the red sun rays glancing off the glass towers downtown and the mountains looming in the back.

[jayswin]

Cincinnati is actually really nice looking.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Cincinnati is actually really nice looking.

ahh the view from Kentucky

[Table 5]

I've been to Cincinnati..I wouldn't say it's anything special in person. It's right there with Cleveland or the Charlotte example you posted. Most American downtowns are a little underwhelming in my opinion. The only ones that really blow me away are Chicago and New York (but man are they good).

Minneapolis has some really nice vantage points. That whole metro kind of reminds of what Calgary and Edmonton would look like if they were combined into one.

Spoiler!

I also think the Seattle skyline is very nice...it has some really nice backdrops too from certain viewpoints, and I think it looks better in person.

Philly has a nice view coming in from the Jersey side on the Ben Franklin bridge.

I always found LA's skyline and downtown in general to be pretty disappointing. Boston is ok I guess. It's a nice setting, but I found it a little bland.

[Tyler]

Never really thought about Pittsburgh until I visited. The view from PNC Park was amazing. They have some gorgeous buildings:



Really loved Pittsburgh. One of the most underrated cities in the US.

[SebC]

I don't get how you can not like LA. It's got mountains behind it. It's like a taller, less wide Calgary, that doesn't have a fatty like The Bow throwing off the balance.

Spoiler!

Image from Nserrano on Wikipedia

[NomNomNom]

For how incredibly big LA is, I find their skyline to be so underwhelming. Both through pictures and in person.

[Badger Bob]

Was making a connecting flight home from DFW a few years back, while sitting in business class. OK, there was a slight buzz going on from the scotch. It was night time, already very dark. We flew out over Lake Michigan before landing at O'Hare. Let's just say that Chicago can be breathtakingly beautiful.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by SebC

I don't get how you can not like LA. It's got mountains behind it. It's like a taller, less wide Calgary, that doesn't have a fatty like The Bow throwing off the balance.

Spoiler!

Image from Nserrano on Wikipedia

That must have been one of the few days those mountains see snow. You take that picture in the summer and the back drop is ugly brown hills. It also loses points because in an area with 10 million they get compared with the best of the best. Instead they have 3 nice buildings. Also once you are in LA downtown the streetscape isnt very nice. No parks and the one commons area is just concrete as well.

[Table 5]

Take away the telephoto lens and the crisp lighting, and this is usually the view of the LA skyline you get in real life.

Spoiler!

The Library Tower is really nice, but as a skyline...I'm not really impressed for this size of city.