Fracking has been used to drill more than 170,000 wells across Alberta

[normtwofinger]

Have you watched Gasland?

[codfather]

Originally Posted by normtwofinger

Have you watched Gasland?

I'm just going to leave this here http://energyindepth.org/wp-content/...ng-Gasland.pdf

[Ducay]

Drilling a well with fracking? Thats childs play. I once completed AND tied in a well by fracking once.

[DuffMan]

I work with a girl and I know for a fact, fraccing fk'd her water well.
It's unbelievable people can deny this can happen.

[FLAMESRULE]

Originally Posted by fotze

Actually gasland does reveal some ridiculous and grossly negligent regulation in some jurisdictions in the US. Some of the stuff they do and are allowed to do down there is mindblowing.

Like being allowed to unload your well to surface, just wow. The setbacks and spacing rules or lack of make me shake my head. Also, a lot of their target formations are quite close to surface, which changes the game bigtime.

Yup. Its truly disgusting what they're allowed to get away with. I know some of the properties that we were looking at in Montana and Utah would allow you to dump your straight produced water into a creek. No processing other than 2 cascading tanks. Horrifying actually.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I recently sat down with several oil and gas engineers.

They did a good job debunking some of the myths of fracking. And when I say myths I mean from both sides.

My takeaways:

Fracking isn't black and white. Every well is different with different variables. You can't look at one incident and say "see it's safe" or another and say "this is horrible". There are lots of safe examples if being safe and others that appear to be dangerous.

I have to say I have yet to watch Gasland. However the folks I was talking to have. They agreed it was sensationalized, but some examples made sense.

Fracking could have very hazordous outcomes if not done properly. However if done properly there shouldn't be any major problems.

Based on these conversations this is the opinion I've formed.

A strategic plan for each drill should be submitted demonstrating how the drill process will work, how the fracking will take place, what is to be done with the waste, and contingencies for problems that may arise. A safety action plan for potential hazards with a security deposit covering cleanup and reparations if someone goes awry.

Qualifications of drillers and waste cleanup need to be shown before drilling begins.

The plan needs to be approved (following set guidelines above what the international community adhere to, we're Canada not the minimum standard) which at that stage should be a rubber stamp (because if you're that far down the rabbit he you should have your stuff together).

We don't want joe blow or inexperienced fracking companies doing the work. We need to ensure safety, and if that's done frack away.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

I work with a girl and I know for a fact, fraccing fk'd her water well.
It's unbelievable people can deny this can happen.

From what I understand (I'm no engineer) that shouldn't happen. But if it does I think fracking companies need to have a safety deposit to fix these issues (be it clean the well (if that's possible) or moving the family, or something, admittedly I don't know enough about environmental disasters to propose a valid solution).

Testing of nearby wells and water should be part of the fracking plan. With continued testing ongoing throughout the frack and afterwards to ensure there is no environmental disturbance.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by fotze

Its totally possible to screw a water well. Back a few years back when CBM was economic, they were fraccing at very shallow depths. This is why they should report this well to the gov't to investigate. Having been a part of these things, it is almost always a result of improper water well maintenance or construction.

i.e. bacteria from surface enters the water well and contaminates the well. If its bacteria it is 99.999% that is the crappy water well itself, the formation that contains the water acts as an incredible filter for bacteria. It will not survive a few meters away from the well.

If it is methane in the well, it is quite common for the well to be drilled through or into coalbed seams. Alberta has areas with very shallow gas containing zones. Since water well regs are weak the gas can get into the water. Coal makes a great filter. That's why people target that water.

The shallower you frac the less overburden and less control over where it goes. The economics of a multistage frac on shallow formations in Alberta are not there. i.e. the oil you get from a shallow reservoir is not enough to justify the cost. A good rule of thumb is the deeper the reservoir the bigger the prize and the much less likely you could come close to affecting a water well.

I am more annoyed at the brutal errors in this article. Put in 5 minutes of research, come on.

Sorry what I ment with the "(if possible)" was to cleaning the well. I'm fully aware that a frack could harm well/drinking water.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by fotze

Where? The Alta gov't pleads with people to get a location such as this.

Much like she pleaded with the Alta govt for some kind of intervention or compensation from the company who did the fracking but got the line

“To date, there has not been a documented case of hydraulic fracturing fluids contaminating a domestic water well in Alberta,”

Here's the reality. Her well worked fine for about 80 years, Company fracs within maybe 2 k of her house, Water is orange, and undrinkable. Ultimately everything settles down after about 6 months, but she has to pay to get an iron filter system installed.
Now this well was old, but still its fine, they frac, its not fine.
coincidence?

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by fotze

Ohhhh, I see.

An 80 year old water well. I can't see anything going wrong with that.

I know when we have an 80 year old oil well, its an absolute treat to workover.

Cars barely last 15 years, imagine if it was buried in the ground for 15 years what the metal would look like.

I know if the government really did their job they would force them to properly abandon the disaster water well that probably now has swiss cheese for casing. I bet a half million dollars wouldn't cover abandoning that well to oilfield standards. They have probably fataed up that aquifer using a well that old. Introduced bacteria from surface.

If you are looking at an acreage and there is an 80 year old water well you do not buy that property.

Give me the location, we can pull the water well report, I can look at the closest well, when it was fracced and where and with what. easy peasy.

Hypothetically speaking, if the frack did case the well water issues (not saying it did, but like Duffman said it's a big coinsidence) how would the company compensate or fix the issue?

Again, this is a hypothetical so the merits of whether the frack caused this issue are irrelevant. We'll say it did. How should it be fixed?

Drill a new well or pay for fresh water to be shipped in and wait 6 months then install an iron filter?

In my proposal above I would say that testing of nearby well water (or perhaps the aquafer) would need to be done to start and if this coinsidence happened the reparation would come out of the safety deposit.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Much like she pleaded with the Alta govt for some kind of intervention or compensation from the company who did the fracking but got the line

“To date, there has not been a documented case of hydraulic fracturing fluids contaminating a domestic water well in Alberta,”

Here's the reality. Her well worked fine for about 80 years, Company fracs within maybe 2 k of her house, Water is orange, and undrinkable. Ultimately everything settles down after about 6 months, but she has to pay to get an iron filter system installed.
Now this well was old, but still its fine, they frac, its not fine.
coincidence?

Maybe, maybe not.
But I'd be inclined to say yeah, it probably was, for a couple reasons.
For example if they fracing 2k away, what would be one hell of a good frac job to make it to a water well that far away. Yes, if the aquifer is that extensive it's possible that they hit it close to the well and it is in communication across the aquifer, but that's not likely something that is going to show up immediately. Also, I'd be interested to know exaclty how deep the aquifer, and the zone they were fracing were. Cause that makes a big difference as well. They aren't likely to frac into an aquifer 100m deep when they are completing a well that is 3500m deep.

Secondly, if the water well now has a problem that can be fixed with an iron filter, that's not likely the type of damage a frac would cause.
If they really did frac into the aquifer and there is a problem she would be seeing hydrocarbons in her water, not iron.

This is exactly the problem I have with people making blanket statements about fracing. They don't understand the process/technology/chemistry involved, and when they see anything go wrong anywhere in the general vicinity/time frame of a well being fraced, they assume they are related, and fall back on the "Coincidence?" argument.

You stated that you "Know for a fact" that her well was damaged by fracing, but you don't seem to have any compelling evidence other than saying "It can't be a conincidence". Well, yes it can.

[undercoverbrother]

I don't work in the oil industry.

Can someone please point me to a fracing for dummies type site?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Much like she pleaded with the Alta govt for some kind of intervention or compensation from the company who did the fracking but got the line

“To date, there has not been a documented case of hydraulic fracturing fluids contaminating a domestic water well in Alberta,”

Here's the reality. Her well worked fine for about 80 years, Company fracs within maybe 2 k of her house, Water is orange, and undrinkable. Ultimately everything settles down after about 6 months, but she has to pay to get an iron filter system installed.
Now this well was old, but still its fine, they frac, its not fine.
coincidence?

So did she complete some type of testing to confirm the water contained contaminants which could be related to the nearby fracing?

[DuffMan]

whatever, I can see how this is going to go.

Her well was fine,
fracing occurred her
her well was not fine.
the fraccing company and the any govt officials denied it could happen.
she paid 4k for an iron filter system.

I'm not giving any locations.

[Chingas]

Originally Posted by fotze

Ohhhh, I see.

An 80 year old water well. I can't see anything going wrong with that.

I know when we have an 80 year old oil well, its an absolute treat to workover.

Cars barely last 15 years, imagine if it was buried in the ground for 15 years what the metal would look like.

I know if the government really did their job they would force them to properly abandon the disaster water well that probably now has swiss cheese for casing. I bet a half million dollars wouldn't cover abandoning that well to oilfield standards. They have probably fataed up that aquifer using a well that old. Introduced bacteria from surface.

If you are looking at an acreage and there is an 80 year old water well you do not buy that property.

Give me the location, we can pull the water well report, I can look at the closest well, when it was fracced and where and with what. easy peasy.

I am typically on your side but the "poor me" ( or oil industry) tone to this paragraph is ridiculous. Half a million to abandon a water well...These infidiles with their 80 year old well ruining the aquifer. You sound just like the clowns that are slagging the fracing process.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

whatever, I can see how this is going to go.

Her well was fine,
fracing occurred her
her well was not fine.
the fraccing company and the any govt officials denied it could happen.
she paid 4k for an iron filter system.

I'm not giving any locations.

I am not asking for locations, I was honestly wondering if she was able to find contaminants in her water.

[normtwofinger]

Originally Posted by fotze

Is that the Jenny McCarthy movie on fraccing?

Fotze I'm not in the industry and before watching Gasland I had no previous knowledge of fraccing. I mean I have heard the term before, but had no idea what was involved in the process. At the time, the documentary was the only thing on tv that was in English. I probably would have changed the channel had there been something else on.

I agree probably some facts of that documentary are embellished or flat out untrue. It's an anti-fraccing pov. This is a good topic to bring out the truths and myths.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by fotze

To actually be of assistance, have they checked out the water well restoration/replacement Program through Farmer's Advocate? There is a fund that will pay for repair or replacement of water wells believed to have been damaged.

Website:
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/general/.../all/pgmsrv120

The Form:
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/general/...df?OpenElement

believed to have been damaged? so it's possible, that fraccing can damage a well?

[photon]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Her well was fine,
fracing occurred her
her well was not fine.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc...

Not saying what the cause was, but the sequence of events itself does not say what the cause was.

Given enough fracing and enough water wells over enough time, a coincidence of this kind is isn't unlikely, rather it's guaranteed.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by photon

Post hoc ergo propter hoc...

Not saying what the cause was, but the sequence of events itself does not say what the cause was.

Given enough fracing and enough water wells over enough time, a coincidence of this kind is isn't unlikely, rather it's guaranteed.

Which is why I am asking if she had the water tested.