[Game Takes] Flames 2 Kings 1

[Bingo]

http://www.calgarypuck.com/2013/12/flames-2-kings-1/

[the2bears]

Scrivens, not Scribbens?

[ricardodw]

The goat --- The Flames PP. specifically Cammalleri 7:31, Hudler 7:16 and Stempniak 6:09

Rienhart 2:36 of ice time. Byron 2:49 of even strength time.

Hartley is starting to lose me as the coach for the re-build. He just seems to have his favorites who are getting ice-time regardless of their play (and just happen to be post-apex players) and treats some players with near contempt that he is forced to dress them. Byron had a huge impact on the game with his 5:39 ... why would he have been limited to so little time while Stempniak floated through 23:05.

[FBI]

At least he finally played backlund for once.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The goat --- The Flames PP. specifically Cammalleri 7:31, Hudler 7:16 and Stempniak 6:09

Rienhart 2:36 of ice time. Byron 2:49 of even strength time.

Hartley is starting to lose me as the coach for the re-build. He just seems to have his favorites who are getting ice-time regardless of their play (and just happen to be post-apex players) and treats some players with near contempt that he is forced to dress them. Byron had a huge impact on the game with his 5:39 ... why would he have been limited to so little time while Stempniak floated through 23:05.

You're on the powerplay of a rebuilding team with limitted talent with the unit missing it's best player (Wideman), it's slot presence (Monahan), and two other key powerplay contributors? (Glencross and Giordano)

I'll go with the goalie that fell on his face twice on national TV

[Cheese]

Thought Ramo was excellent. Always appeared in control, no floundering about. He deserves a 3 week stint to see what he can do.

[GreenLantern]

Love the picture the Flames posted on facebook:

Spoiler!

https://www.facebook.com/NHLFlames

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The goat --- The Flames PP. specifically Cammalleri 7:31, Hudler 7:16 and Stempniak 6:09

Rienhart 2:36 of ice time. Byron 2:49 of even strength time.

Hartley is starting to lose me as the coach for the re-build. He just seems to have his favorites who are getting ice-time regardless of their play (and just happen to be post-apex players) and treats some players with near contempt that he is forced to dress them. Byron had a huge impact on the game with his 5:39 ... why would he have been limited to so little time while Stempniak floated through 23:05.

I'm not going to say that was Stempniak's best game in a Flames' uniform or anything, but your obsession with trying to convince everyone he's an awful player is getting ridiculous.

At least you stopped trying to convince us Hudler is awful.

[badger89]

Great game. Gritty effort all around. Very impressed with how well Brodie and Russell played. Ramo with a great game as well!

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

I'm not going to say that was Stempniak's best game in a Flames' uniform or anything, but your obsession with trying to convince everyone he's an awful player is getting ridiculous.

At least you stopped trying to convince us Hudler is awful.

There are 93 forwards in the NHL that are getting 18:00 of ice time per game. Stempniak is getting 18:59.

The average +/- for these 93 forwards is +2.

Stempniak is 93 of 93 with his -13. If he continues at his current rate for the next 56 games he will finish the season at -51. This is not just bad for the Flames this season..... This is historically bad...


The worst +/- for forwards for 2011-12 was -29, 2010-11 was -31, 2009-10 was -35.

He is being soundly beaten by the opposition at even strength.

Okay he must be lighting it up on the PP. In 2:31 PP minutes per game in his 19 games he has already kicked in with 2 PP assists.

Stempniak is arguably the very worst top 6 forward in the league. On any other team than the Flames (or without his bromance with Hartley) he would not be getting almost 19 minutes of ice-time per game.

If he is injured..... and watching him play, he very might well be, he should not be dressing because he has not been able to play through it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Stempniak is arguably the very worst top 6 forward in the league. On any other team than the Flames (or without his bromance with Hartley) he would not be getting almost 19 minutes of ice-time per game.

If he is injured..... and watching him play, he very might well be, he should not be dressing because he has not been able to play through it.

I think in a rebuild you just can't use stats like that. Any player playing in the Flames top six will be within range of the worst top six players in the league.

the team plays in front of two Euro rookie goaltenders, the weakest blueline in hockey and are paper thin up front.

I'd leave nhl.com stat sorts alone and just watch the guys play.

He was great until he got hurt, now he and his entire veteran line are struggling, but they are a third line in NHL circles not a first and I'm not surprised.

It's a rebuild.

Buckle up

[vilzeh]

Rebuild or not, you shouldn't get undeserved minutes.

[landshark]

I wish I could have seen this game. In the Kings' previous game, they duked it out with SJ in a game that was the most evenly matched game I've seen in years. Two powerhouses battling - it was a great game. I can't imagine how CGY beat LA at home. Must have been fun to watch.

[flames_fan_down_under]

I agree with Bingo, +/- is definitely a stat that can be indicative of certain trends, but it generally reflects quality of team. Your top 20 +/- guys in the NHL right now are made up of 5 San Jose Sharks, 3 players from Anaheim, 4 players from Chicago, 2 from Pit/St Louis/Colorado. The point is the majority are just all from really good teams. Does it really mean much that Justin Braun leads the NHL at +19? I doubt he would have those numbers on the Flames or the Oilers, just like I doubt Stempniak would be a -13 on the Sharks or the Blackhawks.

[BigRed]

Agree with the poster complaining of ice time for Reinhart etc. What's the point of dressing the kid if you can't give him a lousy 10 min? If you're going to play him under 3 min, spare him the embarrassment and dress a spare d-man, for heaven's sake.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I agree with Bingo, +/- is definitely a stat that can be indicative of certain trends, but it generally reflects quality of team. Your top 20 +/- guys in the NHL right now are made up of 5 San Jose Sharks, 3 players from Anaheim, 4 players from Chicago, 2 from Pit/St Louis/Colorado. The point is the majority are just all from really good teams. Does it really mean much that Justin Braun leads the NHL at +19? I doubt he would have those numbers on the Flames or the Oilers, just like I doubt Stempniak would be a -13 on the Sharks or the Blackhawks.

I see your point Russell was a team leading +6 on the Blues while on the Flames he has dropped to a team leading +3.

Stempniak would not be a -13 on a good team because he not be getting 18 minutes a game. He would be a 10-12 minute player a best and if he played like he has for the last 7-8 games he would not be dressing at all.

Do you think that maybe teams that win more games have better players that score contributed to scoring more goals than they let in?

Justin Braun leading the NHL at a +19 makes the Sharks a better team. He is playing 22 minutes a game... most of any Sharks player.... so while he likely would not be a +19 on the Oilers or Flames he would likely be the best even-strength defenseman on either team.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by vilzeh

Rebuild or not, you shouldn't get undeserved minutes.

If the Flames had 18 skaters and 2 goalies that deserved their ice time, they wouldn't be rebuilding.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

If the Flames had 18 skaters and 2 goalies that deserved their ice time, they wouldn't be rebuilding.

Simply and elegantly put. Well said.

[vilzeh]

Sure, that makes sense, but I'm standing behind my comment.

[You Need a Thneed]

Sempniak may be struggling a bit, but last year, him and Stajan were the teams best two forwards.

It's very likely he's not at 100%