Chinese organ harvesting

[Knut]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle30559415/

By their count, Chinese surgeons are transplanting between 60,000 and 100,000 organs a year, a number they say far surpasses the volume of kidneys, livers and hearts available from voluntary donors.

One hospital alone, the Oriental Organ Transplant Centre at the Tianjin First Centre Hospital, is probably doing more than 6,000 transplants a year, they estimate.

Authors David Matas, David Kilgour and Ethan Gutmann have over the past decade published evidence that China is using Falun Gong practitioners, Uyghur Muslims, Tibetans and Christians as a pool for human-tissue extraction.

Sickening if true

[Street Pharmacist]

Absolutely shocking

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Absolutely shocking

Shall I bring you your fainting couch?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Sounds like some of their estimates might be high but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

[PsYcNeT]

That's the real question though:

Is any of this supported by hard evidence, or just because we believe that the Chinese government/machine is capable of such inhumanity (which I mean, isn't really much of a stretch)?

All of this first came out from Falun Gong practitioners, which are pretty much an outspoken group following a modern day Haile Sallasie.

[JohnnyB]

The figures are new. The accusations are not. First time I heard this would have been about 12-13 years ago, just not with claims of such large scale.

[Locke]

I dont know if, on the subject of organ harvesting, I fully trust this Ethan 'Gutman' character....

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

The figures are new. The accusations are not. First time I heard this would have been about 12-13 years ago, just not with claims of such large scale.

Which would roughly coincide with the Chinese government crackdown on Falun Gong practitioners.

[CaptainCrunch]

Well it saves them money on prisoners and convicts and political agitators and makes them a nice profit as well.

[GirlySports]

The Chinese are now more capitalist than capitalists.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Which would roughly coincide with the Chinese government crackdown on Falun Gong practitioners.

Well, the chinese have admitted this happen but insist that it no longer does as of a few years ago.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The Chinese are now more capitalist than capitalists.

It's crony capitalism.

It's what capitalism looks like in unregulated markets.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Yeah like JohnnyB said this has been going on for over a decade now.

I feel like this would be easy to trace back so I'm not sure why it hasn't been cracked down on yet. I guess the government must be okay with it.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Yeah like JohnnyB said this has been going on for over a decade now.

I feel like this would be easy to trace back so I'm not sure why it hasn't been cracked down on yet. I guess the government must be okay with it.

According to the article, they're complicit with it

[Fuzz]

China has acknowledged the use of prisoner organs in the past, but said the practice stopped last year.

Oh, like, in 2015? Probably when this study also took place. Forgive me if a 6 month record isn't enough to convince me you have actually stopped.

Messaging form the Chinese and the Russians seams to have a similar tone. "Doping? Oh, we stopped that last year. Can we come to Rio now?"

[CaptainCrunch]

Lets be honest, the Chinese government are the mafia with nicer suits, they lie whenever they can, they torture and kill and suppress with little in the way of a conscience. They're ruthlessness personified and not very nice people.

Their MSS makes the Russian Security Services look like pinko kitten hugging hippies.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Sounds like some of their estimates might be high but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

60-100k sounds high, but not for China.

For instance, 100k here vs our population of approx 36 million = 2.8%
100k to China's 1.6 billion population (45 ish times more) = something like .062%

I'd also say that for that number, the whole 100k isn't non-voluntary donors. Does anyone know whether they hint at the actual number of organs that they have no idea where they came from (ie: Illegal)?

EDIT: From OP article

He estimates that 80 per cent of the organs used in China come from prisoners of conscience, although “in the presence of total cover-up and the absence of total access to data, that’s just an estimate.”

80k organs a year? Hmm... I guess a single individual has more than one organ... India for instance ran into something similar in the past.

http://content.time.com/time/world/a...709006,00.html

Though, perhaps not as institutionalized as per China's case.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It's crony capitalism.

It's what capitalism looks like in unregulated markets.

Trump said that!

[Canada 02]

For comparison, USA had 30000 organ transplants in 2015 in a population of 320 million.

Does 60000-100000 in 1.6 billion really seem high?

Not sure what to believe. Some of that article doesn't pass the smell test