Landlord/ Tenant issue: need advice

[EYE_Overstand]

i have managed a few of the family condos for the past 5 years and thankfully never had a problem with anything.... till a few weeks ago

My tenants called to inform me that while at work their apartment flooded and it had leaked to the one below.

the plumber had to come in as well as a restoration company to start ripping up carpet and underlay etc.

this is the exact quote from the plummbers note:

"
-gained access to suite and found toilet backed up and over flowing.
-plunged toilet, verified operation left water off to toilet. suggest flapper and valve be replaced
"

this is what the dispatch emailed me from the plumbing company:

" unfortunately our tech plungered the toilet and it cleared, he did not snake it or remove it, so there is no way to tell what the blockage was"

This is what the plummber wrote the condo manager:

"the tenant is on the top floor and the tub wasnt backed up and it ties into the same line as the toilet. i was able to plunge the toilet and had no issues getting it to go dowm telling me it was a toilet issue and nothing to do with the building piping"

This is what the condo manager said in a few different emails:

1. "yes the toilet was plugged"
2." i spoke with the technician from ____. he advised that the toilet was plugged, it leaked and over flowed your unit ad the one below"
3. "they (plumbers) already determined that it was the toilet that was plugged, it has nothing to do with the building. They plunged it only a few times and it unplugged"

_________________________________

thats the story. i was out of town when this happened and i have still not received a bill for the damage. ,y insurance doesnt cover water back up, and my tenants have insurance. They are saying it was not their fault and they are not willing to take this on.

What do i do? any suggestions?

thank you very much for time and responses

[CaptainCrunch]

I doubt that there is anything you can do. Sometimes people take toilet plugging poops.

[Reaper]

Who takes a big dump and doesn't make sure the toilet bowl fully empties and refills before leaving the bathroom? That's just asking for trouble. My opinion is that the tenant's fault for faulty toilet practices.

[Ducay]

Seems cut and dry that it's your tenant's fault. Repairs will likely fall on you, how/if that gets passed on to your tenants is the real question.

[EYE_Overstand]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Seems cut and dry that it's your tenant's fault. Repairs will likely fall on you, how/if that gets passed on to your tenants is the real question.

thats exactly what i am struggling with... how to have them take fault and pay? they are denying everything and blamming it on the toilet itself BUT that is odd because everything says the toilet was plugged

[Coach]

Yeah, I would think your tenant should be putting in a resonable effort to plunge the toilet themselves before calling a plumber. That's some expensive laziness right there.

[Hevishot]

Originally Posted by EYE_Overstand

thats exactly what i am struggling with... how to have them take fault and pay? they are denying everything and blamming it on the toilet itself BUT that is odd because everything says the toilet was plugged

Show them what the plumber wrote. It has nothing to do with the toilet just the person using the toilet. If they are still going to deny it can you give them written notice of an upcomming rent increase? That way you can recoup your losses?

[Hanni]

What does the lease say? Most leases specifically list plugged toilets as the tenants problem, also they usually state that any damage caused as a result of tenant negligence is their responsibility.

So if you have a case that they are responsible you have to consider

1) keeping their damage deposit, which probably isn't going to cover the damage to this extent;
2) are you willing to fight for them to pay the damages and go to the landlord/tenant board or court.

If it was me I would try and have a rational conversation with them, show them the plumbers report and show them what their lease says. Good luck if you have to/decide to fight them for it.

[Knut]

Get a plumber in to assess the toilet for any issues that would have caused it to plug and flood a bunch. If it is a perfectly functioning toilet and you have it in writing in would send them a bill / withhold the costs from the damage deposit. You should also check your lease to make sure you have something like this in writing.

[EYE_Overstand]

Originally Posted by Hanni

What does the lease say? Most leases specifically list plugged toilets as the tenants problem, also they usually state that any damage caused as a result of tenant negligence is their responsibility.

So if you have a case that they are responsible you have to consider

1) keeping their damage deposit, which probably isn't going to cover the damage to this extent;
2) are you willing to fight for them to pay the damages and go to the landlord/tenant board or court.

If it was me I would try and have a rational conversation with them, show them the plumbers report and show them what their lease says. Good luck if you have to/decide to fight them for it.

the lease says:

" The tenant shall be responsible for:

The cost of repairing plugged toilets, sinks dishwasher, drains and the cost of all damage resulting directly or indirectly therefrom"

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by EYE_Overstand

the lease says:

" The tenant shall be responsible for:

The cost of repairing plugged toilets, sinks dishwasher, drains and the cost of all damage resulting directly or indirectly therefrom"

Send them the plumber's report, tell them to re-read their lease and send them an invoice for the cost of the damage. Also, you should find out what cars they own so you can put a lien on them on the chance that they pull a midnight move to get out of paying.

[GGG]

How did it cause so much damage? I mean when a toilet overflows you ususally can see it coming and clean it up quickly. Did they just leave all the ####ty water on the floor and wait for a plumber?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by GGG

How did it cause so much damage? I mean when a toilet overflows you ususally can see it coming and clean it up quickly. Did they just leave all the ####ty water on the floor and wait for a plumber?

That's what it sounds like to me.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by GGG

How did it cause so much damage? I mean when a toilet overflows you ususally can see it coming and clean it up quickly. Did they just leave all the ####ty water on the floor and wait for a plumber?

Probably took a huge morning dump, and ran out of the house to go to work before verifying the toilet wasn't choking to death.

[EYE_Overstand]

the thing is, it was all clear water that flood... no faeces or urine etc

[Knut]

Originally Posted by EYE_Overstand

the thing is, it was all clear water that flood... no faeces or urine etc

Feminine product maybe.

[kipperfan]

Pay the bill and take the tenant to small claims court (assuming the damage is less then $25K) if they refuse to reimburse you, not much else you can do.

[killer_carlson]

Have a real good, long look at section 61(1) of the Condominium Property Regulations (note: Regulations, not Act).

You can PM me if you need to chat.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Pay the bill and take the tenant to small claims court (assuming the damage is less then $25K) if they refuse to reimburse you, not much else you can do.

This is probably a last resort for any landlord, depending on the size of the bill it might not even be worth that.

I would agree that you should just point out the lease and the plumbers comments. If they refuse to pay they are in breach of the contract and you can search for new tenants. I know that can be a pain, but the floods have left a lot of people looking for places, I don't think you'll have trouble finding new tenants. I had more people come look at my tiny room for rent in a matter of two weeks than I have had in total over the last 3 years.

[BlackArcher101]

I thought insurance covered that sort of thing? My tenant insurance did. Any negligence from my actions or damage cause from equipment failure.