City council delays decision to limit nightlife on 17th Ave

[SebC]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...729/story.html

Two years after the city launched consultations on how to keep 17th Ave. S.W.’s nightlife culture from getting out of control, council decided it needs six months for more study.

Council avoided making any major changes to its permitting policy on the strip Tuesday. Mayor Naheed Nenshi mused favourably about including liquor-serving restaurants within a rule that caps bars from dominating more than half of any one block.

So bad timing on my behalf now that this issue is going onto the back burner, but I think this is a proposal worth noting. I think I'd be against it, seems like over-regulating to me.

[Ozy_Flame]

Interesting, I don't think anyone really thought the number of bars were getting "out of control". I think that might be tempered by the number of restaurants constantly opening up and shutting down along 17th, so really bars are not much of a problem.

Unless the issue is too many bars are condensed into such a small space? Really the space in question would be 4th to 6th st.

[Table 5]

I lived a block off from 17th for about a year, and the noise could be irritating.....but it kind of goes with the territory. I think the newfound restaurant scene that's emerged over the last few years has been fantastic for the city.

The motorcycle revving is infinitely more annoying.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I lived a block off from 17th for about a year, and the noise could be irritating.....but it kind of goes with the territory. I think the newfound restaurant scene that's emerged over the last few years has been fantastic for the city.

The motorcycle revving is infinitely more annoying.

Indeed, you would think people moving there should know exactly what you are signing up for. Good and bad.

[troutman]

The Flames have already taken care of limiting nightlife on 17th Ave.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Didn't the city do this to Electric Ave (11th) once upon a time? And it kind of killed it?

[corporatejay]

Social Engineering.

[Hack&Lube]

More diversity in the area is a good thing, that way we don't end up with another Electric Avenue deal.

More unique restaurants, cafes, funky stores (like that cool Candy Store), etc. would make the area a better draw as well than just rows of bars.

[blankall]

Lame. Canada is lame. Only in Canada do initiatives like this get put through. Calgary gets one area that has a resemblance of a nightlife and the grandmas, Nimbys, and socially conservative nannys step in to stomp it out.

In no other part of the world would this happen, except possibly Utah and the fictional universe where Pleasantville and Footloose took place.

[Bunk]

The 50% rule is fairly sensible - it's already existed for years on the north side of the street, this extends it to the south side (different Area Redevelopment Plans flank 17th). In a way it's preventative to ensure there's not an oversaturation of bars, but almost all blocks are still well under that 50% frontage so there's still flexibility. The real way to solve some of the social disorder issues is not through land use restrictions, it's enforcement, penalizing bad bar operators and the like.

I live one block off 17th and overall the street just keeps getting better. Who could argue that Cibo is not better than Rogers video, or that 80th & Ivy is not better than Source Adult Video (at least for the vitality of the street). The conversion of Classic Jack's to Roosevelt or crappy Yardhouse to Market. The strip also has the best coffee in the whole city, particularly Analog (which used to be a useless tiny convenience store). Also love the addition of Best Buy for convenience of getting electronics and really look forward to the rumoured addition of Whole Foods at 8th and 16th - along with the other retail slated for that huge project.

[SebC]

Post I found at SSP...

Originally Posted by fusili

[...] Bars are being replaced by restaurants. There is more of a culture of dining out, drinking wine and having a sit down experience compared to going to the bar. Casual drinking is replacing binge drinking. College students are getting priced out. Just look at the following changes in the last 5 or so years:

The following are bars that have been converted into restaurants:
Point on 17th- O (formerly Avocado)
Republic- Model Milk
Bungalow- Ox and Angela
Yardhouse- Market
Beckhams- Kuzina

The following are "new" bars/licensed restaurants that replaced retail
- Jameson's (Dollar Store)
- 80th and Ivy (Source Adult Video)
- Sharkeys (closed now) (Source Adult Video)
- The pint (burned down corner store)
- Los Chilitos (not sure what it replaced)
- Moxies
- Farm
- Cibo (Rogers Video)
- The Coup
- Una (was unlicensed Wicked Wedge)

The following are expanded bars:
- 1410 (formerly the Homestead)
- National (formerly Mercury)

So in terms of bars, it is pretty much a wash, we lost 5, we gained 4. So, the real change is more licensed restaurants. I have a hard time believing Cibo, Farm, Ox and Angela and Borgo are the cause of terrible social disorder.

[...]

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Bunk

The 50% rule is fairly sensible - it's already existed for years on the north side of the street, this extends it to the south side (different Area Redevelopment Plans flank 17th). In a way it's preventative to ensure there's not an oversaturation of bars, but almost all blocks are still well under that 50% frontage so there's still flexibility.

I guess I struggle even accepting that. What happens at 51% that's so terrible? Are two bars really that much louder than one bar? It seems to me like the negative effects on the community are more likely to come from the first bar on the block than from the fifth one.

[polak]

Originally Posted by blankall

Lame. Canada is lame. Only in Canada do initiatives like this get put through. Calgary gets one area that has a resemblance of a nightlife and the grandmas, Nimbys, and socially conservative nannys step in to stomp it out.

In no other part of the world would this happen, except possibly Utah and the fictional universe where Pleasantville and Footloose took place.

After just being in Europe I have to echo this sentiment.
This is by far the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Yeah cause Calgary has a real out of control party scene right?

They already put in the stupid 2 am curfew which is an absolute joke. What other dumb measures can this city think of to make it even less vibrant after midnight?

Don't want noise? Don't live near 17th freaking avenue. What did you think you were going to get when you moved there?

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Bunk

I live one block off 17th and overall the street just keeps getting better. Who could argue that Cibo is not better than Rogers video, or that 80th & Ivy is not better than Source Adult Video (at least for the vitality of the street). The conversion of Classic Jack's to Roosevelt or crappy Yardhouse to Market. The strip also has the best coffee in the whole city, particularly Analog (which used to be a useless tiny convenience store). Also love the addition of Best Buy for convenience of getting electronics and really look forward to the rumoured addition of Whole Foods at 8th and 16th - along with the other retail slated for that huge project.

Agreed. In just the 1.5 years I've been back to Calgary, the transformation has been fantastic. There's still a lot of holes to fill, but man, it's becoming a great little neighborhood. It kind of has everything...places to eat, places to drink and places to do some shopping. And what's nice is that it's not just one type of crowd either....I think there's places to enjoy whether you're 18 or 60.

Oh, and Whole Foods is nice, but we have enough expensive grocery stories. I want Trader Joes, baby!

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by polak

After just being in Europe.

Were you?

You never mention it.

[nik-]

First thing to do after a trip to Europe is to come home and write a book about your experiences.

[Locke]

Super lame.

I propose this alternative instead:

- We should legislate it that no one over 40 is allowed to live within 3 blocks of 17th avenue.

Problem. Solved.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by polak

After just being in Europe I have to echo this sentiment.
This is by far the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Yeah cause Calgary has a real out of control party scene right?

They already put in the stupid 2 am curfew which is an absolute joke. What other dumb measures can this city think of to make it even less vibrant after midnight?

Don't want noise? Don't live near 17th freaking avenue. What did you think you were going to get when you moved there?

just like if a citizen doesn't want their house to flood by a River. Then don't buy a house near a River and complain every time the river over flows.
People that buy near 17th Ave purchase there for the convenience and life style that comes with that area.
Not saying everyone that purchases near 17th is a mad bar hopping person but a significant part of the 17th community is the nightlife and this didn't occur over the period of just a few years, it has been a bar location for at least 30 years many of the residence in and around 17th are customers that support that strip of bars with their $ so the problem is also driven by the very same community that City Hall has reached this decision.
I don't live there but it is a nice vibrant area with a variety of business well beyond just bars.
This community of business depends on each other to draw people and the bars attract numbers during the day also which draws people to their business.
I have to agree with Polak if the area is no longer your picnic or you have out grown it to live around then move. The house or apartment will soon be scooped up.
I had no idea that there is actually a 2pm curfew that is down right hilarious. Man i am glad my bar days are long gone.

[TurnedTheCorner]

17th doesn't seem so bad, or as notorious as 11th was back in the day. There's lots of clubs on 10th, so I don't think it's an overwhelming party presence on 17th, Just nightlife, which as most have mentioned isn't the worst thing in the world.

It's probably even only up for discussion because of the proximity to Mount Royal.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Locke

Super lame.

I propose this alternative instead:

- We should legislate it that no one over 40 is allowed to live within 3 blocks of 17th avenue.

Problem. Solved.

^
lol too easy


I am, and i agree who am i or any other 40+ Calgarian to deny the the right young people to party drink well past 2AM and go to bars like the 17th strip. I can assure you the behavior was probably = if not far worse by most of us.
It is part of growing up.
We all did it so now that life has evolved some of them act like a bunch of hypocrites since the days of partying no longer suites them.