100 Best Hockey Players Of All Time 1998 Vs Now

[Hockeyboy2]

Thought this might be an interesting thread 15 years later.

In 1998 The Hockey News Published the Top 100 Hockey Players Of All Time List.

What changes would be made now / who moves up / who moves down?

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis...he_Hockey_News

1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Bobby Orr
3. Gordie Howe
4. Mario Lemieux[1]
5. Maurice Richard
6. Doug Harvey
7. Jean Beliveau
8. Bobby Hull
9. Terry Sawchuk[2]
10. Eddie Shore
11. Guy Lafleur
12. Mark Messier
13. Jacques Plante
14. Ray Bourque
15. Howie Morenz
16. Glenn Hall
17. Stan Mikita[3]
18. Phil Esposito
19. Denis Potvin
20. Mike Bossy
21. Ted Lindsay
22. Patrick Roy
23. Red Kelly
24. Bobby Clarke
25. Larry Robinson
26. Ken Dryden
27. Frank Mahovlich
28. Milt Schmidt
29. Paul Coffey
30. Henri Richard
31. Bryan Trottier
32. Dickie Moore
33. Newsy Lalonde
34. Syl Apps
35. Bill Durnan
36. Charlie Conacher
37. Jaromir Jagr[4]
38. Marcel Dionne
39. Joe Malone
40. Chris Chelios[5]
41. Dit Clapper
42. Bernie Geoffrion
43. Tim Horton
44. Bill Cook
45. Johnny Bucyk
46. George Hainsworth
47. Gilbert Perreault
48. Max Bentley
49. Brad Park
50. Jari Kurri
51. Nels Stewart
52. King Clancy
53. Bill Cowley
54. Eric Lindros
55. Busher Jackson
56. Peter Stastny
57. Ted Kennedy
58. Andy Bathgate
59. Pierre Pilote
60. Turk Broda
61. Frank Boucher
62. Cy Denneny
63. Bernie Parent
64. Brett Hull
65. Aurel Joliat
66. Toe Blake
67. Frank Brimsek
68. Elmer Lach
69. Dave Keon
70. Grant Fuhr
71. Brian Leetch
72. Earl Seibert
73. Doug Bentley
74. Borje Salming
75. Georges Vezina
76. Charlie Gardiner
77. Clint Benedict
78. Steve Yzerman
79. Tony Esposito
80. Billy Smith
81. Serge Savard
82. Alex Delvecchio
83. Babe Dye
84. Lorne Chabot
85. Sid Abel
86. Bob Gainey
87. Johnny Bower
88. Sprague Cleghorn
89. Mike Gartner
90. Norm Ullman
91. Sweeney Schriner
92. Joe Primeau
93. Darryl Sittler
94. Joe Sakic
95. Dominik Hasek
96. Babe Pratt
97. Jack Stewart
98. Yvan Cournoyer
99. Bill Gadsby
100. Frank Nighbor

[handgroen]

Risers:
jagr, brett hull, yzerman, hasek, sakic
snubbed completely:
brodeur, belfour

[rohara66]

Can't comments on most players on that list (never seeing them play) but Hull, Yzerman, Sakic, Hasik, Brodeur > Lindros

And wheres Lidstrom?
And why's Chellios so damn high?
And Crosby would obviously be on that list already in his career (top 50 maybe?).

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by rohara66

Can't comments on most players on that list (never seeing them play) but Hull, Yzerman, Sakic, Hasik, Brodeur > Lindros

And wheres Lidstrom?
And why's Chellios so damn high?
And Crosby would obviously be on that list already in his career (top 50 maybe?).

Lindros wouldn't make the list.

Chelios would still be that high. That was during his prime years still (one of the few players where you could call his 14th year in the league still his prime). He played in the NHL for 26 years.

Lidstrom would be top 25 maybe top 10. He had only one all star appearance (maybe 2 depending on when written) when this list was made and didn't win a Norris til 2001.

Crosby would definitely be top 50.

[slybomb]

Would Iginla make the list?

[PlayfulGenius]

I'd take Iginla over Gartner... I think that's a fair comparison as they both player RW...certainly they're very different players, though.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

The more that I look at these lists the more useless they become, how can you accurately judge players that no one has seen play. I prefer lists that focus on players that have been in the league post 1967.

The Hockey News did this in 2007 and I think it provides for a better look at players who we have actually seen play.


1) Wayne Gretzky
2) Bobby Orr
3) Mario Lemieux
4) Mark Messier
5) Patrick Roy
6) Steve Yzerman
7) Martin Brodeur
8) Ray Bourque
9) Nicklas Lidstrom
10) Phil Esposito
11) Mike Bossy
12) Jaromir Jagr
13) Guy Lafleur
14) Denis Potvin
15) Bobby Clarke
16) Paul Coffey
17) Dominik Hasek
18) Larry Robinson
19) Bryan Trottier
20) Joe Sakic
21) Jari Kurri
22) Brett Hull
23) Marcel Dionne
24) Peter Forsberg
25) Ron Francis
26) Scott Stevens
27) Gilbert Perreault
28) Bernie Parent
29) Ken Dryden
30) Peter Stastny
31) Al MacInnis
32) Chris Chelios
33) Bobby Hull
34) Serge Savard
35) Billy Smith
36) Brad Park
37) Grant Fuhr
38) Scott Niedermayer
39) Brian Leetch
40) Joe Nieuwendyk
41) Bob Gainey
42) Cam Neely
43) Frank Mahovlich
44) Pavel Bure
45) Tony Esposito
46) Chris Pronger
47) Dale Hawerchuk
48) Pat LaFontaine
49) Brendan Shanahan
50) Rob Blake
51) Luc Robitaille
52) Stan Mikita
53) Ed Belfour
54) Yvan Cournoyer
55) Glenn Anderson
56) Denis Savard
57) Sidney Crosby
58) Darryl Sittler
59) Borje Salming
60) Sergei Fedorov

Iginla still isn't on this list, however I think it is difficult to determine where to slot him in, personally I think that there could be a very good case for putting him in around #35-40 although there are a few other players who would be bumped up the list as well, Crosby and Selanne in particular... which is weird in the case of Selanne because he was solidified as being an elite NHL talent at that time.

Actually a few other weird notes, Lindros was completely removed from the Top 60 after 67... although I would personally put him around #30-35... especially if putting Neely in there as well. Also Brodeur being above Hasek is somewhat controversial... especially when you consider how much further above him he is. Also Fedorov is hilariously low, I don't know many people who would rather have Luc Robitaille rather than Fedorov. I would put him in right above Nieuwendyk based upon superior two-way play.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by handgroen

Risers:
jagr, brett hull, yzerman, hasek, sakic
snubbed completely:
brodeur, belfour

Don't know if I would say that. 1998 he had his first Cup and was coming off a great season but only a couple years in the game. Would be akin to having Thomas in the same conversation a year ago.

[Northendzone]

re: the initial list - aurel joilet at 65 was ridiculous......he played in an era before the forward pass in the offensive zone was allowed, give him this weapon and a composite stick, he is T15 for sure......

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Also in that book Brodeur was highlighted along with Selanne, Forsberg, Tkachuk (I think) and Berard (I think again) as being those who were likely to be top 100 players in the future.

[tvp2003]

Funny to see the flags -- I'm assuming the rest are Canadian? If so, I would imagine the ratio would have changed, from 90:10 to 75:25? 70:30?

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

The Hockey News did this in 2007 and I think it provides for a better look at players who we have actually seen play.


1) Wayne Gretzky
2) Bobby Orr
3) Mario Lemieux
4) Mark Messier
5) Patrick Roy
6) Steve Yzerman
7) Martin Brodeur
8) Ray Bourque
9) Nicklas Lidstrom
10) Phil Esposito

Spoiler!

11) Mike Bossy
12) Jaromir Jagr
13) Guy Lafleur
14) Denis Potvin
15) Bobby Clarke
16) Paul Coffey
17) Dominik Hasek
18) Larry Robinson
19) Bryan Trottier
20) Joe Sakic
21) Jari Kurri
22) Brett Hull
23) Marcel Dionne
24) Peter Forsberg
25) Ron Francis
26) Scott Stevens
27) Gilbert Perreault
28) Bernie Parent
29) Ken Dryden
30) Peter Stastny
31) Al MacInnis
32) Chris Chelios
33) Bobby Hull
34) Serge Savard
35) Billy Smith
36) Brad Park
37) Grant Fuhr
38) Scott Niedermayer
39) Brian Leetch
40) Joe Nieuwendyk
41) Bob Gainey
42) Cam Neely
43) Frank Mahovlich
44) Pavel Bure
45) Tony Esposito
46) Chris Pronger
47) Dale Hawerchuk
48) Pat LaFontaine
49) Brendan Shanahan
50) Rob Blake
51) Luc Robitaille
52) Stan Mikita
53) Ed Belfour
54) Yvan Cournoyer
55) Glenn Anderson
56) Denis Savard
57) Sidney Crosby
58) Darryl Sittler
59) Borje Salming
60) Sergei Fedorov

Iginla still isn't on this list, however I think it is difficult to determine where to slot him in, personally I think that there could be a very good case for putting him in around #35-40 although there are a few other players who would be bumped up the list as well, Crosby and Selanne in particular... which is weird in the case of Selanne because he was solidified as being an elite NHL talent at that time.

Actually a few other weird notes, Lindros was completely removed from the Top 60 after 67... although I would personally put him around #30-35... especially if putting Neely in there as well. Also Brodeur being above Hasek is somewhat controversial... especially when you consider how much further above him he is. Also Fedorov is hilariously low, I don't know many people who would rather have Luc Robitaille rather than Fedorov. I would put him in right above Nieuwendyk based upon superior two-way play.

This list is astonishingly flawed: it doesn't have Gordie Howe in it. Gordie eff'ing Howe.

edit: crap, I missed the part about post-1967 players. Now I look like the jerk.

second edit: Looking at Howe's numbers, between 66-67 and 70-71 he played 368 games, scored 152 goals and had 251a for 403 points. (Including a 44 goal 59 assist 103 point season as a 40-year-old in 68-69) Considering he was 39 in 1967, and given his previous accomplishments, I go back to my initial assessment: leaving Howe off even a post 1967 list is criminal. CRIMINAL.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

The more that I look at these lists the more useless they become, how can you accurately judge players that no one has seen play. I prefer lists that focus on players that have been in the league post 1967.

There is nothing wrong with an all-time list. Best players ever! This list is someone's opinion and everyone would have a different list.

If you disagree, say why. Also nothing wrong with someone coming up with a list of the best players since 1967, or whenever, but I like the all-time list.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

The Hockey News did this in 2007 and I think it provides for a better look at players who we have actually seen play.


1) Wayne Gretzky
2) Bobby Orr
3) Mario Lemieux
4) Mark Messier
5) Patrick Roy
6) Steve Yzerman
7) Martin Brodeur

What, if anything, does Brodeur need to do be ranked higher than Roy? The only real thing that Roy has over Brodeur is the Conn Smythe...

[Magnum PEI]

It's pretty ridiculous that there is only one Russian on the 1998 list, and he moved to Canada when he was a month old.

[mikephoen]

Lists that include both goalies and regular players always seem a little weird to me. There are very few things you can compare a goalie and a skater on. Team success, total number of individual awards, length of time they were considered one of the top players at their position... that's about all I can think of.

I might even go so far as to say you need a separate list for forwards, defensemen and goalies.

[Bourque's Twin]

I thought Rob Schremp would've made it onto the new list. That's too bad...

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

What, if anything, does Brodeur need to do be ranked higher than Roy? The only real thing that Roy has over Brodeur is the Conn Smythe...

Roy is overrated. He didn't carry teams the way Hasek and Brodeur did. For goalies more than other players, who you play for and their profile in the league seems to carry too much weight.

[trackercowe]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Roy is overrated. He didn't carry teams the way Hasek and Brodeur did. For goalies more than other players, who you play for and their profile in the league seems to carry too much weight.

Did you see the 86' or 93' Habs? Those teams were fairly mediocre, and only won Cups because of Roy. The Devils teams Brodeur won cups with were better than teams from those years.

Roy is the best modern day goalie, and I don't think it's that close actually.

Hasek was better at his peak though, just not overall for his entire career.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Magnum PEI

It's pretty ridiculous that there is only one Russian on the 1998 list, and he moved to Canada when he was a month old.

No it's not - until the 90s (or at least late 80s), Russians rarely played in the NHL.

Off hand, I can't think of any real impactful Russians prior to the big wave of Red Wings with Fedorov, Larionov, etc

Obviously, Calgary had Makarov, but he only ended his career here - not enough time in the NHL to be one of the top players of all time.