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Old 05-27-2013, 09:55 AM   #1
Hockeyboy2
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Default 100 Best Hockey Players Of All Time 1998 Vs Now

Thought this might be an interesting thread 15 years later.

In 1998 The Hockey News Published the Top 100 Hockey Players Of All Time List.

What changes would be made now / who moves up / who moves down?

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis...he_Hockey_News
  1. Wayne Gretzky
  2. Bobby Orr
  3. Gordie Howe
  4. Mario Lemieux[1]
  5. Maurice Richard
  6. Doug Harvey
  7. Jean Beliveau
  8. Bobby Hull
  9. Terry Sawchuk[2]
  10. Eddie Shore
  11. Guy Lafleur
  12. Mark Messier
  13. Jacques Plante
  14. Ray Bourque
  15. Howie Morenz
  16. Glenn Hall
  17. Stan Mikita[3]
  18. Phil Esposito
  19. Denis Potvin
  20. Mike Bossy
  21. Ted Lindsay
  22. Patrick Roy
  23. Red Kelly
  24. Bobby Clarke
  25. Larry Robinson
  26. Ken Dryden
  27. Frank Mahovlich
  28. Milt Schmidt
  29. Paul Coffey
  30. Henri Richard
  31. Bryan Trottier
  32. Dickie Moore
  33. Newsy Lalonde
  34. Syl Apps
  35. Bill Durnan
  36. Charlie Conacher
  37. Jaromir Jagr[4]
  38. Marcel Dionne
  39. Joe Malone
  40. Chris Chelios[5]
  41. Dit Clapper
  42. Bernie Geoffrion
  43. Tim Horton
  44. Bill Cook
  45. Johnny Bucyk
  46. George Hainsworth
  47. Gilbert Perreault
  48. Max Bentley
  49. Brad Park
  50. Jari Kurri
  51. Nels Stewart
  52. King Clancy
  53. Bill Cowley
  54. Eric Lindros
  55. Busher Jackson
  56. Peter Stastny
  57. Ted Kennedy
  58. Andy Bathgate
  59. Pierre Pilote
  60. Turk Broda
  61. Frank Boucher
  62. Cy Denneny
  63. Bernie Parent
  64. Brett Hull
  65. Aurel Joliat
  66. Toe Blake
  67. Frank Brimsek
  68. Elmer Lach
  69. Dave Keon
  70. Grant Fuhr
  71. Brian Leetch
  72. Earl Seibert
  73. Doug Bentley
  74. Borje Salming
  75. Georges Vezina
  76. Charlie Gardiner
  77. Clint Benedict
  78. Steve Yzerman
  79. Tony Esposito
  80. Billy Smith
  81. Serge Savard
  82. Alex Delvecchio
  83. Babe Dye
  84. Lorne Chabot
  85. Sid Abel
  86. Bob Gainey
  87. Johnny Bower
  88. Sprague Cleghorn
  89. Mike Gartner
  90. Norm Ullman
  91. Sweeney Schriner
  92. Joe Primeau
  93. Darryl Sittler
  94. Joe Sakic
  95. Dominik Hasek
  96. Babe Pratt
  97. Jack Stewart
  98. Yvan Cournoyer
  99. Bill Gadsby
  100. Frank Nighbor
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:08 AM   #2
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Risers:
jagr, brett hull, yzerman, hasek, sakic
snubbed completely:
brodeur, belfour
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:16 AM   #3
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Can't comments on most players on that list (never seeing them play) but Hull, Yzerman, Sakic, Hasik, Brodeur > Lindros

And wheres Lidstrom?
And why's Chellios so damn high?
And Crosby would obviously be on that list already in his career (top 50 maybe?).
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:23 AM   #4
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Can't comments on most players on that list (never seeing them play) but Hull, Yzerman, Sakic, Hasik, Brodeur > Lindros

And wheres Lidstrom?
And why's Chellios so damn high?
And Crosby would obviously be on that list already in his career (top 50 maybe?).
Lindros wouldn't make the list.

Chelios would still be that high. That was during his prime years still (one of the few players where you could call his 14th year in the league still his prime). He played in the NHL for 26 years.

Lidstrom would be top 25 maybe top 10. He had only one all star appearance (maybe 2 depending on when written) when this list was made and didn't win a Norris til 2001.

Crosby would definitely be top 50.
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:50 AM   #5
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Would Iginla make the list?
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Old 05-27-2013, 11:57 AM   #6
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I'd take Iginla over Gartner... I think that's a fair comparison as they both player RW...certainly they're very different players, though.
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:03 PM   #7
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The more that I look at these lists the more useless they become, how can you accurately judge players that no one has seen play. I prefer lists that focus on players that have been in the league post 1967.

The Hockey News did this in 2007 and I think it provides for a better look at players who we have actually seen play.


1) Wayne Gretzky
2) Bobby Orr
3) Mario Lemieux
4) Mark Messier
5) Patrick Roy
6) Steve Yzerman
7) Martin Brodeur
8) Ray Bourque
9) Nicklas Lidstrom
10) Phil Esposito
11) Mike Bossy
12) Jaromir Jagr
13) Guy Lafleur
14) Denis Potvin
15) Bobby Clarke
16) Paul Coffey
17) Dominik Hasek
18) Larry Robinson
19) Bryan Trottier
20) Joe Sakic
21) Jari Kurri
22) Brett Hull
23) Marcel Dionne
24) Peter Forsberg
25) Ron Francis
26) Scott Stevens
27) Gilbert Perreault
28) Bernie Parent
29) Ken Dryden
30) Peter Stastny
31) Al MacInnis
32) Chris Chelios
33) Bobby Hull
34) Serge Savard
35) Billy Smith
36) Brad Park
37) Grant Fuhr
38) Scott Niedermayer
39) Brian Leetch
40) Joe Nieuwendyk
41) Bob Gainey
42) Cam Neely
43) Frank Mahovlich
44) Pavel Bure
45) Tony Esposito
46) Chris Pronger
47) Dale Hawerchuk
48) Pat LaFontaine
49) Brendan Shanahan
50) Rob Blake
51) Luc Robitaille
52) Stan Mikita
53) Ed Belfour
54) Yvan Cournoyer
55) Glenn Anderson
56) Denis Savard
57) Sidney Crosby
58) Darryl Sittler
59) Borje Salming
60) Sergei Fedorov

Iginla still isn't on this list, however I think it is difficult to determine where to slot him in, personally I think that there could be a very good case for putting him in around #35-40 although there are a few other players who would be bumped up the list as well, Crosby and Selanne in particular... which is weird in the case of Selanne because he was solidified as being an elite NHL talent at that time.

Actually a few other weird notes, Lindros was completely removed from the Top 60 after 67... although I would personally put him around #30-35... especially if putting Neely in there as well. Also Brodeur being above Hasek is somewhat controversial... especially when you consider how much further above him he is. Also Fedorov is hilariously low, I don't know many people who would rather have Luc Robitaille rather than Fedorov. I would put him in right above Nieuwendyk based upon superior two-way play.

Last edited by Mean Mr. Mustard; 05-27-2013 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handgroen View Post
Risers:
jagr, brett hull, yzerman, hasek, sakic
snubbed completely:
brodeur, belfour
Don't know if I would say that. 1998 he had his first Cup and was coming off a great season but only a couple years in the game. Would be akin to having Thomas in the same conversation a year ago.
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:26 PM   #9
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re: the initial list - aurel joilet at 65 was ridiculous......he played in an era before the forward pass in the offensive zone was allowed, give him this weapon and a composite stick, he is T15 for sure......
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:28 PM   #10
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Also in that book Brodeur was highlighted along with Selanne, Forsberg, Tkachuk (I think) and Berard (I think again) as being those who were likely to be top 100 players in the future.
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:53 PM   #11
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Funny to see the flags -- I'm assuming the rest are Canadian? If so, I would imagine the ratio would have changed, from 90:10 to 75:25? 70:30?
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard View Post

The Hockey News did this in 2007 and I think it provides for a better look at players who we have actually seen play.


1) Wayne Gretzky
2) Bobby Orr
3) Mario Lemieux
4) Mark Messier
5) Patrick Roy
6) Steve Yzerman
7) Martin Brodeur
8) Ray Bourque
9) Nicklas Lidstrom
10) Phil Esposito

Spoiler!
This list is astonishingly flawed: it doesn't have Gordie Howe in it. Gordie eff'ing Howe.

edit: crap, I missed the part about post-1967 players. Now I look like the jerk.

second edit: Looking at Howe's numbers, between 66-67 and 70-71 he played 368 games, scored 152 goals and had 251a for 403 points. (Including a 44 goal 59 assist 103 point season as a 40-year-old in 68-69) Considering he was 39 in 1967, and given his previous accomplishments, I go back to my initial assessment: leaving Howe off even a post 1967 list is criminal. CRIMINAL.

Last edited by driveway; 05-27-2013 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard View Post
The more that I look at these lists the more useless they become, how can you accurately judge players that no one has seen play. I prefer lists that focus on players that have been in the league post 1967.
There is nothing wrong with an all-time list. Best players ever! This list is someone's opinion and everyone would have a different list.

If you disagree, say why. Also nothing wrong with someone coming up with a list of the best players since 1967, or whenever, but I like the all-time list.
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard View Post
The Hockey News did this in 2007 and I think it provides for a better look at players who we have actually seen play.


1) Wayne Gretzky
2) Bobby Orr
3) Mario Lemieux
4) Mark Messier
5) Patrick Roy
6) Steve Yzerman
7) Martin Brodeur
What, if anything, does Brodeur need to do be ranked higher than Roy? The only real thing that Roy has over Brodeur is the Conn Smythe...
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:16 PM   #15
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It's pretty ridiculous that there is only one Russian on the 1998 list, and he moved to Canada when he was a month old.
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:27 PM   #16
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Lists that include both goalies and regular players always seem a little weird to me. There are very few things you can compare a goalie and a skater on. Team success, total number of individual awards, length of time they were considered one of the top players at their position... that's about all I can think of.

I might even go so far as to say you need a separate list for forwards, defensemen and goalies.
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:31 PM   #17
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I thought Rob Schremp would've made it onto the new list. That's too bad...
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:42 PM   #18
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What, if anything, does Brodeur need to do be ranked higher than Roy? The only real thing that Roy has over Brodeur is the Conn Smythe...
Roy is overrated. He didn't carry teams the way Hasek and Brodeur did. For goalies more than other players, who you play for and their profile in the league seems to carry too much weight.
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:47 PM   #19
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Roy is overrated. He didn't carry teams the way Hasek and Brodeur did. For goalies more than other players, who you play for and their profile in the league seems to carry too much weight.
Did you see the 86' or 93' Habs? Those teams were fairly mediocre, and only won Cups because of Roy. The Devils teams Brodeur won cups with were better than teams from those years.

Roy is the best modern day goalie, and I don't think it's that close actually.

Hasek was better at his peak though, just not overall for his entire career.
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Old 05-27-2013, 02:12 PM   #20
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It's pretty ridiculous that there is only one Russian on the 1998 list, and he moved to Canada when he was a month old.
No it's not - until the 90s (or at least late 80s), Russians rarely played in the NHL.

Off hand, I can't think of any real impactful Russians prior to the big wave of Red Wings with Fedorov, Larionov, etc

Obviously, Calgary had Makarov, but he only ended his career here - not enough time in the NHL to be one of the top players of all time.

Last edited by Enoch Root; 05-27-2013 at 02:16 PM.
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