Question for landlords re: cleaning after a tenant

[calf]

Can I charge my time for cleaning a rental property after the tenants move out against their damage deposit?

I know a normal wipedown, vacuuming, dusting is normal wear and tear, but, my tenants left massive stains in the sinks and bathtub and on the carpet, which were spotless when they moved in. I’m a do-it-myself kind of guy, so don’t really want to hire a professional, and I’m not sure I can get someone in on short notice.

The contract doesn’t have a clause about cleaning charges above and beyond a normal amount, but, mentions that they will leave the apartment reasonably in the condition they got it, which they didn’t. When we did the walkthrough after they moved out, they signed off on the move out condition being incredibly dirty and noted new stains showing up all over the place.

I’m not overly fussed if I made a mistake in the contract and lose out on a couple of hours…but if I can, I’m wondering if I were to charge, say, $25/hr for cleaning that it’s a reasonable deduction from their damage deposit.

[Ozy_Flame]

So answer this - are you changing the conditions of the contract to which they already signed off to?

Might be in a bit of a jam.

[Travis Munroe]

Simple answer is yes based on the stains and based on them signing off that it was in a messier state than when they moved in. I am assuming you had them sign on something similar when they moved in?

[Tron_fdc]

I don't see why not. When I rented in my youth I got nailed for not cleaning behind the stove, cleaning the inside of the stove and inside of the fridge, not shampooing carpets, cleaning window sills, all kinds of little things. The reality of it is if you take a few hundred off their damage deposit, it's not worth their time or money to fight you on it.

If they were a PITA I would do it. If they were good renters I'd let it slide, the vast majority of people I rented to were average at best, so I had no problem keeping their deposits. Unfortunately, 9 times out of 10 the deposits didn't cover the damage they caused.

Renters suck.

[sa226]

I thought it was pretty standard that if you left the place in an unclean condition. The cost of making it move in-able came out of the damage deposit.

Otherwise people would have no incentive to clean when they left.

And I have wasted a ton of time.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Yes you can ding their damage deposit - but I would call a company to clean it. They'll probably do a better job, and it gives you the added boot of being able to claim it for taxes of course.

That and you don't have to do it - Win!

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by sa226

I thought it was pretty standard that if you left the place in an unclean condition. The cost of making it move in-able came out of the damage deposit.

Otherwise people would have no incentive to clean when they left.

I don't think that is what he is asking. He is asking if he can charge to clean the place himself; as opposed to paying cleaners to do it.

[photon]

I don't think there needs to be a specific clause in the agreement, the Landlord Tenant Act governs all tenancies and withholding a portion of the security deposit is part of the process (it's the whole point of having a security deposit).

(Also keep in mind that you have to return it or give an account of what was done with the money within 10 days, or if you don't know you have to give an estimate and how much you're withholding based on the estimate and then give the final account and balance within 30 days of them moving out)

If you have their signature on a move-out report, then I don't see any problem withholding a reasonable amount to clean, the tenants are supposed to leave the property in the same condition they received it (with normal wear).

However I've been told by lawyers that specialize in landlord/tenant stuff in Alberta that if the landlord themselves does the cleaning that they can't charge for their own time, that if the tenant challenges in court or mediation for the security deposit that they won't allow that. I don't really understand why though, and I've never been in a situation where that was tested.

Part of it might be it's easy for a landlord to say "Yeah I spent 20 hours cleaning" and then withhold an unreasonable amount, where if someone's hired it's easy to point to a receipt and say "I withheld $384.23 because that's what they charged me".

I don't like it either because even hiring cleaners most of the time I've ended up going in and doing more cleaning myself since cleaners seem to have a different idea of clean than reasonable people.

You've got the security deposit to withhold, so you could still try and do it, worst case is the tenant takes you to court or mediation and you have to give back your $25/hr, probably unlikely though.

[Minnie]

Phone Landlord/Tenant and run it by them. They'll tell you exactly how to handle it, so that everyone is covered.

http://www.servicealberta.ca/landlords_tenants.cfm

http://www.servicealberta.ca/rtdrs/

[Smartcar]

If you have new tenants moving in and no time to arrange a cleaning company it's reasonable to do it yourself. $25/hour is fair. Take photos so if they challenge you there is proof that it wasn't left clean. Since they signed off on it you should be OK as long as the hours you charge are justified.

It's always better to hire a cleaner if you do have the time, because you have a receipt for proof. It doesn't have to be a professional cleaner. Also make sure you get the statement of account within 10 days. If you think the cleaning costs will be the full DD you can say that.

[calf]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. After reading all the experiences of landlords here in the past, I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to be doing something that wasn't common (or at least somewhat common) practice...although next time I'm definitely getting pros in, as many of you have suggested (10 man-hours of work on Saturday).

But yes, I've documented the heck out of everything that has gone on with this person, and the cleaning just scratches the surface of how they ended the lease. Hopefully the next one is better!

[Northendzone]

for future refence, you may wish to document the expectations/penalties in the elase, so everyone is clear.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I don't think that is what he is asking. He is asking if he can charge to clean the place himself; as opposed to paying cleaners to do it.

I don't see that as being any different, but I don't think that is what he is asking.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by photon

However I've been told by lawyers that specialize in landlord/tenant stuff in Alberta that if the landlord themselves does the cleaning that they can't charge for their own time, that if the tenant challenges in court or mediation for the security deposit that they won't allow that. I don't really understand why though, and I've never been in a situation where that was tested.

That's crazy, I guess I haven't been following the proper rules, but this kind of makes no sense.

So the laws support people leaving a mess in other people's home when moving out as long as they don't have to hire a professional cleaner?

Professional cleaners clean no better than my 7 year old niece. Usually when someone moves out and leaves you a mess it needs a serious cleaning that hardly anyone other than the home owner will do. I tried hiring a couple cleaners to clean and they've walked out after seeing what they were supposed to do. You're a cleaner, how can a job be too rough for you? This is more of a gear grinder I guess.

[photon]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

So the laws support people leaving a mess in other people's home when moving out as long as they don't have to hire a professional cleaner?

Just that you can't do it yourself and pay yourself.

But the courts are pretty much on the side of the tenants, I knew someone who'd put in new carpets in a place, new tenants trashed them in six months, judge decided six months to ruin the carpets was normal wear and denied the landlord charging the tenant.

[mustache ride]

Can i throw in another question here? Renting my townhouse out and wondering if you other landlords have any advice for first timers. Budgets, red flags or any other small thing you guys have picked up over the years? Anything would be appreciated greatly!

[calf]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I don't see that as being any different, but I don't think that is what he is asking.

Realistically, I was curious both about what the standard, as well as if I could pay myself. I don't forsee the renter making an issue of it, but it's good to know what could go wrong.

Budgets, red flags or any other small thing you guys have picked up over the years? Anything would be appreciated greatly!

Make sure to have something specific in the lease about cleaning charges.