Is Coaching the Biggest Problem?

[Kipper is King]

In the event the Flames finish quite low in the standings (hope not!), many will be pointing fingers at Bob Hartley, I imagine.

However, I like his offensive style. The Flames this year have shown little flashes of being creative offensively. In the defense-first Sutter era, such play was clearly outlawed. Offensive play is exciting to watch, and I think with a better team to coach, Hartley could do really well.

Granted, there has to be a balance between offensive creativity and defensive responsibility, but I hope the Flames lean towards offense somewhat.

In short, if this season heads further south for the Flames, I believe Hartley would deserve another season or two to prove his worth.

What do y'all think?

[bluloc]

Yes its all Playfairs.... I mean Keenan..... I mean Sutters....... I mean Hartley's fault, lets keep blaming the coach. Its been working out quite well for the Flames.

[Yamer]

I think if we have learned one thing from the revolving door of coaches and the consistent sub-par performance, coaching is absolutely not the biggest problem.

[Gundo]

The coaching has changed more times than the core of the team, the team has changed more than the ownership/puppet masters.

Until ownership wants to take a different direction with the team it will continue to fight for an 8th place finish.

[dino7c]

poor coach has had one average NHL quality center most of the year...at the best of times he had 2 average NHL centers

.500 is pretty damn good

[ComixZone]

This team has one major problem. The center ice position.

This organization can dance around it all they want. Shuffle those magical chairs around all they want - but NOTHING will get better until we get franchise centers.

[FlamesAddiction]

No, it's not the biggest problem.

Any time a coach takes over a team that has struggled, it takes more than just 2 months (with no real training camp) to turn it around. It takes one season just to assess and ask the GM for certain changes.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dino7c

poor coach has had one average NHL quality center most of the year...at the best of times he had 2 average NHL centers

.500 is pretty damn good

and very poor goaltending for most of the year.

you show me a good goalie and I'll show you a good coach

conversely, when the team isn't executing, nothing the coach does will be right

[zamler]

Its gotta be the coach, management has tried everything else.

[moon]

The coaching is very weak but lack of talent is the biggest problem.

[JayFlowmeester]

I like the way Hartley coaches. The problem is that hes got no talent to work with.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by moon

The coaching is very weak but lack of talent is the biggest problem.

Lack of talent in certain positions too. The wings are pretty decent overall, a good collection of wingers.. but just a huge void down the middle is a massive problem.

To address the topic.. no it's not just coaching but over the years that's been one of the things. This team went from one of the best coaches in the NHL to Jim Playfair and Mike Keenan, who was a shade of his former self. It went from a high level of leadership from behind the bench, to nothing. Playfair was a big softie, which doesn't help as moving from assistant to head coach is almost impossible to do successfully at the NHL level.

After that a general apathy seemed to set into the locker room over time. This is blamed on everyone, the coach, the captain, everyone. Once apathy sets into a work place it's damn near impossible to get it out and I think that's the problem now. No one person can change that and that's why I'm all for turning over everything. It's not one persons fault but it needs to be corrected.

We've seen guys brought in who tend to have jump and vigor and give them time on the Flames and it's sucked out of them, it's a retirement home. Not bringing in young players to provide that spark doesn't help either.

We've seen Wideman get frustrated at it earlier in the season, which doesn't surprise anyone.

It's apathy, no passion, they don't care.

Sure you see glimpses of it but it doesn't last long. Even last night vs Nashville, it wasn't that great of a game, it was pretty pedestrian like.

Before Darryl Sutter was hired it was there too. I remember one long losing streak in 2002-2003 where Craig Conroy was almost laughing at the lack of losing. Sutter brought a tight rope and didn't let go and when he was gone a lack of leadership behind the bench let it seep right back in.

I don't place the blame at any ones feet in particular, though Jarome Iginla being the captain surely some blame lays there... but this issue is bigger. The work force is apathetic and it's time to gut it and start anew. I really don't even care how it happened as I only care how to fix it and get it out of the system all together.

The Flames need two weeks of constant diarrhea to clear the system, get some new liquid into the body and start fresh.

[IgiTang]

I breakdown each area of the ice for the kids I coach into 4 sections... ..

Offensive zone, Neutral Zone, Defensive Zone and compete level. I use this thought process when watching the Flames and this is how I see how they are being coached and what is taking place.

Offensive zone- The way they are competing for the puck and trying to maintain possession is great. They are also, for the most part funneling pucks to the net with traffic. I really enjoy, as many others, the offensive zone play that Coach Hartley has induced into this squad. Allowing the offensively talented Dmen to come off the point to dig-up loose pucks is great and for the most part arent costing the team because the weak side Dman is covering and the weak side fwd is recognizing the play and covering the high slot/point.

The neutral zone has great back pressure this year. I hear from all the nucks fans how slow the Flames are, but how fast do you need to be when you can play as a 5 man unit up and down the ice with strong back pressure and solid puck support? I feel the Flames, not perfect, are accomplishing this at most times.

The Defensive zone. The Flames D are great along the boards, IMO. Able to make smart decisions aside from a few gafs from Giordano(not just him, just what standout and horrify me still).
Their breakout is a bit predictable and causing them alot of grief IMO. Dman to winger on half boards, if winger is not able to skate across own blueline, he looks to the middle of own high slot. Since our centers arent the quickest, the wingers arent able to do a chip off the boards and the center supports by getting past opposing forechecker to retrieve puck and send it deep. A chip past the forechecker is resulting in loss of possession or a predicted pass from half boards to center is sometimes read and broken up causing a fire drill in the backend. Mix that with not having a center who can help the D take the body of bigger teams wingers down low, causes alot of issues in our own end.

This all brings us back to needing Centers with size who can be matched against the like of a Anze Kopitar, Dustin Brown, David Booth, Jumbo Joe... yada yada..

So I think Hartley is doing an amazing job with the group he has been provided. I hope to see him here for a while so we can get the personnel on the ice to shore up some much needed size.

[Flamboyant 14]

Nothing wrong with Bob Hartley,I think he's doing a great job with what he has to work with.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

We've seen Wideman get frustrated at it earlier in the season, which doesn't surprise anyone.

Hey MMF, do you have a link/article on that? I must have missed this.

[LouCypher]

I think the biggest problem is the make up of the team is weird and unconventional in some areas. Its hard to find a successful well built team and say that we are being built along a similar model. A couple superstars nearing the end,some decent secondary players and big holes in key areas plugged by stop gaps and money.

I like our coaching, they just have some real limitations in building team chemistry and having the right type of depth due to not enough of the right players in the right positions. You can have depth and decent players but it doesn't mean you've built a fundamentally sound team.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Hey MMF, do you have a link/article on that? I must have missed this.

It was a TV broadcast and Wideman was frustrated/confused about a PK line change or something. I don't have a link for it and I might even be overthinking the incident. I'm sure someone can back me up on it though, maybe flesh out what happened?

Can't even remember if it was TSN or on Sportsnet now to be honest.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

So I think Hartley is doing an amazing job with the group he has been provided. I hope to see him here for a while so we can get the personnel on the ice to shore up some much needed size.

You think the current Calgary lineup is about as good as the Oilers?

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by zamler

You think the current Calgary lineup is about as good as the Oilers?

Huh? What does any of what im saying have to do with the Oilers? Im giving my opinion of what the issue is. I clearly stated my opinion.

What are you getting at?

[pylon]

The biggest problem is the fact that the team went on a 1 in a 1000 fluke run 8 years ago, and everyone has assumed that is the metric to compare the team to. They were a mediocre team in 04, that found some magic, and now you have the same mediocre core, older and performing to their true abilities.