Former Flames doctor testifies about H1N1 flu shot queue jumping

[sureLoss]

This pissed a lot of people off a few years back:

Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics Flames doctor says Calgary flu clinics a "



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
....sorry, said he didn't want to take his team to clinics unannounced, because people wouldn't respect player privacy. #abhealth #abpoli

Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics He spoke to a nurse patient, said he needed his team "to be safe in the line-up." Asked her to speak to her superiors. #abhealth



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
"It was never my intention to ask for a private clinic, an off-site clinic," says the Flames' doctor. #abhealth #abpoli



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
Inquiry counsel asks if players couldn't have just gone on their own to be vaccinated, instead of arriving as a whole team en masse.



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
Flames doctor says knowing the players, they wouldn't have gone. Might still have been hassled by fans. #abhealth #abpoli



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
Hah! Thorne argues it was a PR benefit that Flames vaccinated so publicly, because it encouraged more people to get flu shots. #abhealth



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics Flames doc Jim Thorne says the decision was taken high enough up at AHS for the vaccine to be released for private clinic. #abhealth



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
Flames doc says AHS came to HIM with proposal for private clinics. AHS's idea, not his. #abhealth #abpoli



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
Thorne says Flames players came with their families. Originally, clinic was just supposed be for players and traveling team staff. #abhealth



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
Thorne insists it was AHS idea for Flames players to bring families, because it was more efficient use of opened vials of vaccine. #abhealth



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
MT @j_komarnicki: “There were five hour line-ups and we weren't going to be in that lineup.” #abhealth



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
Thorne says the supply was taken from stock at the Brentwood health clinic in Calgary. #abhealth #abpoli



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
Brentwood clinic nurses who were off-shift came to Thorne's clinic to administer vaccines. Thorne says they volunteered. #abhealth



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
Thorne says his own daughter was vaccinated at Flames clinic. But his wife wasn't because she doesn't believe in vaccinations. #abhealth



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
Counsel asks about allegations "volunteer" nurses were paid. Thorne says there was "appreciation" after the fact - game tickets. #abhealth



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
RT @j_komarnicki: Thorne: "They refused." No tickets traded hands #abhealth



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
But, Thorne says, the nurses' kids did get Flames autographs. #abhealth



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
Thorne stresses that AHS initially said enough vaccine for all Albertans - that rationing didn't happen until later. #abhealth



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
Thorne insists he was totally surprised. "We didn't know a shortage was coming. If we knew 1 was, we wouldn't have proceeded." #abhealth



Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics
"In hindlight, we probably should have got into the line-up with our own security." - Flames doc Jim Thorne. #abhealth

Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics Unless I missed it, Thorne didn't really offer any apologies for the Flames' jump of the H1N1 queue - he's only sorry about the PR fallout.

[Azure]

And here I thought two-tier health care doesn't exist.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Azure

And here I thought two-tier health care doesn't exist.

Well, three-tier. NHL players are "middle class"

[polak]

I agree that they couldn't really stand in line with everyone else. The line ups were hours long, they would've been mobbed, even if they went individually, the well known guys would still be mobbed.

If they had no clue that there would be a shortage then I don't have a problem with them getting their own private clinic. I think the problem is with AHS and how they forecasted supply, not the Flames organization.

[SuperMatt18]

In my opinion this was blown out of proportion since day one.

[Azure]

I have a hard time believing they would get 'mobbed.' Should they able to cut in line at Timmy's as well to avoid the attention from the fans?

If they can private health care, anyone else should too. And the flu shots are just a minor part of the 'care' they receive. How many Canadian NHL players have to wait for any kind of surgery?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Paula Simons ‏@Paulatics Unless I missed it, Thorne didn't really offer any apologies for the Flames' jump of the H1N1 queue - he's only sorry about the PR fallout.

Nor should they. The Flames tried their best to take care of their employees. If my employer told me they had a private site set up for the H1N1 flu shot I would have taken it too. This all falls on Alberta Health, they're the stupid ones who actually said "Yes!".

[undercoverbrother]

Cue jumping happens all the time.

When I played provincial level rugby, we could walk into the U of C medical clinic and see a sport doctor within the day. The fella we saw was a rugby canada selector.

It's nothing new.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/01...n_2449856.html

Dr. Nicholas Mohtadi told a preferential access inquiry Thursday that he and a "majority" of surgeons are pressured by friends and colleagues for fast-track examinations that then allow patients to get on wait lists for surgery.
Mohtadi testified that doctors see those patients, but always outside office hours so that no one who is on the regular list gets bumped.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Azure

I have a hard time believing they would get 'mobbed.' Should they able to cut in line at Timmy's as well to avoid the attention from the fans?

If they can private health care, anyone else should too. And the flu shots are just a minor part of the 'care' they receive. How many Canadian NHL players have to wait for any kind of surgery?

A line at Timmys is a dozen people and 10 minutes long tops. There is a good chance they can go in and not be recognized. If they were standing in line for hours with hundreds of other families, they would get mobbed, for sure.

I don't agree with the cue jumping for stuff where there isn't actually a public, physical cue for stuff like surgery but I guess that is just a perk of being in that position. Can't blame them for saying yes.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by fotze

Isn't the doctor on the payroll of Alberta Health? How does that work, I thought you could not do private health care?

.

I believe tha can do private work. They invoice ABHC each time they see a patient. I suppose they could invoice the private company for each patient they see. Mon/Wed/Fri work and invoice ABHC, Tue/Thurs they could work for say...The Flames and invoice them.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Azure

I have a hard time believing they would get 'mobbed.' Should they able to cut in line at Timmy's as well to avoid the attention from the fans?

If they can private health care, anyone else should too. And the flu shots are just a minor part of the 'care' they receive. How many Canadian NHL players have to wait for any kind of surgery?

None, but that goes for a lot people. I didn't wait for care due to the team i played for, and I certainly wasn't a pro.

[Mazrim]

I really hate to be that guy, but it has to be said:
Cue - something you use playing Pool
Que - french for "that"
Queue - a lineup

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

I really hate to be that guy, but it has to be said:
Cue - something you use playing Pool
Que - french for "that"
Queue - a lineup

damn it, I always thought you looked like you avatar.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by polak

A line at Timmys is a dozen people and 10 minutes long tops. There is a good chance they can go in and not be recognized. If they were standing in line for hours with hundreds of other families, they would get mobbed, for sure.

I don't agree with the cue jumping for stuff where there isn't actually a public, physical cue for stuff like surgery but I guess that is just a perk of being in that position. Can't blame them for saying yes.

I don't blame the players. I blame the system, and I find it a bit ridiculous how people choose to bury their head in the sand over the fact that two-tier health care is very much alive.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I believe tha can do private work. They invoice ABHC each time they see a patient. I suppose they could invoice the private company for each patient they see. Mon/Wed/Fri work and invoice ABHC, Tue/Thurs they could work for say...The Flames and invoice them.

Well considering the Flames have private doctors on staff, there is obviously something in the Alberta Health Laws, and the Canadian Health Act that allow doctors to do that legally.

I don't have much of a problem with it. Obviously the needs of the Flames organization as a whole are a lot different than the needs of a single family.

[Bmuzyka]

If we are talking about priority cases about who should have gotten it before anyone else? They should have done people working in the health system and First Responders first, not a hockey team

[pylon]

This all boils down to "It's not who what you know, it's who you know."

Similar to Fotze, we have a GP and a Dentist in the family. Do you honestly think they are going to make friends or family wait? It is not a lot different than the fact one of my close friends or family members can get a lot of the same perks I get when they do business with me. The only caveat, their selection is limited to what I am selling to get that deal. It's win/win.

Anyone who thinks there isn't a ton of backscratching, and bartering going on in every single industry and service known to man, is delusional. You would be stupid to not use your connections to your advantage.

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't blame the players. I blame the system, and I find it a bit ridiculous how people choose to bury their head in the sand over the fact that two-tier health care is very much alive.

So we have a 2 tier health care system where the tiers are separated by "who you know"

But isn't that different from a 2 tier health care system where the tiers are separated by $$$$$ and "who you know"?

IMO it is different and better.

[joe_mullen]

Originally Posted by pylon

This all boils down to "It's not who what you know, it's who you know."

Similar to Fotze, we have a GP and a Dentist in the family. Do you honestly think they are going to make friends or family wait? It is not a lot different than the fact one of my close friends or family members can get a lot of the same perks I get when they do business with me. The only caveat, their selection is limited to what I am selling to get that deal. It's win/win.

Anyone who thinks there isn't a ton of backscratching, and bartering going on in every single industry and service known to man, is delusional. You would be stupid to not use your connections to your advantage.

i personally know of cases where it is the exact opposite; GPs that refuse to even give the faintest advice to family and friends. that being said, i'm not naive enough to think that it doesn't happen in some cases.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by joe_mullen

i personally know of cases where it is the exact opposite; GPs that refuse to even give the faintest advice to family and friends. that being said, i'm not naive enough to think that it doesn't happen in some cases.

Let me clarify one thing. I am not talking about 'cue jumping' per se. I am talking if I need to see them for a appt (they are a GP), I can get in same day, as opposed to having to wait a few. They will always squeeze me in if they are around, which is nice. I think that is a little different than what the concern is here of people getting preferential treatment for surgery and stuff.