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Old 05-12-2012, 09:12 PM   #1
driveway
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Fox News report on the subject.

ESPN on the subject.

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Our Lady of Sorrows refused to play Mesa Preparatory Academy in Thursday’s scheduled Arizona Charter Athletic Association state championship game, because that team has Paige Sultzbach at second base. The 15-year-old agreed to sit out a pair of regular season victories over Our Lady of Sorrows, which is run by the Society of St. Pius X, an traditionalist church that broke away from Roman Catholic Church over Vatican reforms in 1970. But with everything on the line tonight, Sultzbach wasn't willing to stay glued to the bench — even if it means no game at all.
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In a statement to FoxNews.com, an Our Lady of Sorrows official said the school had no choice but to forfeit because it has a strict policy prohibiting participation in co-ed athletics and believes in "forming and educating boys and girls" separately.

“Teaching our boys to treat ladies with deference, we choose not to place them in an athletic competition where proper boundaries can only be respected with difficulty,” the statement read. "Our school aims to instill in our boys a profound respect for women and girls."
I am enraged by this.
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:17 PM   #2
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yay religion
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:22 PM   #3
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Every once in a while I need to double check the calendar just to make sure it's still 2012, stories like this and the North Carolina gay marriage ban have me convinced I slipped into a worm hole and ended up in 1955 again.
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:46 PM   #4
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Fitting the school is called "Our Lady of Sorrows". It sounds effing miserable.
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:04 PM   #5
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Our school aims to instill in our boys a profound respect for women and girls
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:35 PM   #6
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lol America.
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:54 PM   #7
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Oh man the persecution against Christians continues.
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:58 PM   #8
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yay religion
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lol America.
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Oh man the persecution against Christians continues.
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:59 PM   #9
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My question is if a boy sucks at baseball will he be able to play softball? what about a soccer player can he play with the girls? Why is it okay for the other way around?
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:09 PM   #10
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My question is if a boy sucks at baseball will he be able to play softball?
He'd suck at softball too.
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:23 PM   #11
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At first glance I thought how petty and stupid this was then I thought about it and if was a contact sport like hockey I'd probably agree with this school's stance..unless the girl was a goalie. I have no problem with girls playing vs boys in certain sports but others I think is wrong. Even with combat sports I don't have a problem with a girl wrestling vs guys in her weight class but I would have issues with a girl boxing with guys. So I don't quite know where the line is but with baseball I certainly think this was just silly on that schools part.
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:34 PM   #12
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It's flipping baseball. You can have a 4 month old play 2nd base and no harm will come to her.
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Old 05-13-2012, 12:14 AM   #13
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My question is if a boy sucks at baseball will he be able to play softball? what about a soccer player can he play with the girls? Why is it okay for the other way around?
It's because FemiNazis rule the world.
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Old 05-13-2012, 12:23 AM   #14
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My question is if a boy sucks at baseball will he be able to play softball? what about a soccer player can he play with the girls? Why is it okay for the other way around?
Here's why it's okay: from the time they are born boys are socially conditioned to engage in athletic activities (yes, this is a generalization). There is also a biological element where human males are (generally) bigger and stronger than females, giving them an advantage at sports.

The end result of this is that the level of play for men's sports is generally higher than women's sports. Women, however should be encouraged to pursue sporting activities for all the reasons men are, health, personal growth, learning to be part of a team, etc. etc.

Since, in most cases if the threshold for participation in any sporting league was simply talent and skill men and boys would be extremely dominant and women would be significantly marginalized, hugely reducing their opportunity to participate in sports.

To carry your "if a guy sucked, could he play softball" idea to its conclusion, you'd end up with two games, almost exclusively played by men, with a few women sprinkled around the edges. You'd have the higher skill players playing in the "men's" division and then the less skilled, but still on average more skilled than most women, playing in the former "women's" division. This is not a desirable outcome.

Therefore it becomes ideal to given women a space to participate in sports where they do not have to compete for playing time against a group of people who have biological and social advantages.

Now, there are situations where individual women, either through exceptional skill or lack of other opportunities may play sports at the same level as the men. Michelle Wie is an excellent example of a woman trying to achieve the requisite skill to play her sport against men. Danika Patrick is an example of a woman who has achieved that skill and also does not have the opportunity to participate in a women's division in her sport.

The counter argument I can already hear is that "what about a guy who wants to play softball? Or field hockey?" Well, I would agree this is a reasonable argument, but one which must be considered on a case-by-case basis, in the interest of maintaining competitive balance. If a young man who used to play men's field hockey in Europe moved to North America and wanted to continue to pursue his sport at his new school and there was only a woman's team I would argue that he should be allowed to do so, so long as his skill is not substantially greater than the rest of the league. If he had been a world-class player back in Europe and now wanted to play in a middling high school league he should not be allowed to play for reasons of competitive balance. It would be similar to letting a 27-year-old Kobe Bryant decide he wanted to play NCAA ball.

In the case of Paige Sultzbach I don't know if it's exceptional skill or lack of opportunity or a combination of both which has resulted in her position on her schools baseball team. My guess would be a combination of both if she's the starting second baseman, also Mesa Prep does not have a girls baseball team, nor do they have a softball team at the High School level.

I hope this rather lengthy post has explained why it's okay for girls to play boys sports, but generally not okay for boys to play girls sports.
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Old 05-13-2012, 12:44 AM   #15
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So the guy who sucks at baseball is still better than most of the girls? Bullcrap. I've coached a lot of minor league ball and some teams had far more guys that "throw like a girl" (the "shot put" throw) than females. Perhaps girls that lacked skill (baseball newbies) were reluctant to join a mixed team and would have joined an all-girl team. But I think there are enough skill levels within the co-ed sporting community that there should be no need to separate the genders.

I'm happy to see that boys are now joining in the ringette leagues. Perhaps they started later than most of the guys in their class... perhaps they just immigrated to Canada and developed an interest in winter sports later than others.

Personally, I think leagues should be based on skill level PERIOD, not by "this sport is for males while this sport is for females".
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Old 05-13-2012, 01:22 AM   #16
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My question is if a boy sucks at baseball will he be able to play softball? what about a soccer player can he play with the girls? Why is it okay for the other way around?
This is relevant to this topic how?

Btw, there is plenty of precedent for boys being allowed to participate in girls sports where an equivalent boys sport isn't available.
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Old 05-13-2012, 01:59 AM   #17
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So the guy who sucks at baseball is still better than most of the girls? Bullcrap. I've coached a lot of minor league ball and some teams had far more guys that "throw like a girl" (the "shot put" throw) than females. Perhaps girls that lacked skill (baseball newbies) were reluctant to join a mixed team and would have joined an all-girl team. But I think there are enough skill levels within the co-ed sporting community that there should be no need to separate the genders.

I'm happy to see that boys are now joining in the ringette leagues. Perhaps they started later than most of the guys in their class... perhaps they just immigrated to Canada and developed an interest in winter sports later than others.

Personally, I think leagues should be based on skill level PERIOD, not by "this sport is for males while this sport is for females".
You're ignoring the fact that women might not wish to play sports in a co-ed environment. I think people are analyzing this notion of equality far too literally/formally, in this instance. It's about equality of opportunity.

Boys can play softball - there are lots of leagues for them to do that. And if there aren't enough boys-only ringette teams, they can get together and start more. It's ok to let girls do their own thing (especially in a recreational context) in an environment not full of horny, aggressive men. Sports, like the rest of the world, doesn't need to be based completely on equality of merit, but rather equality of opportunity.
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Old 05-13-2012, 02:30 AM   #18
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:41 AM   #19
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Now, there are situations where individual women, either through exceptional skill or lack of other opportunities may play sports at the same level as the men. Michelle Wie is an excellent example of a woman trying to achieve the requisite skill to play her sport against men. Danika Patrick is an example of a woman who has achieved that skill and also does not have the opportunity to participate in a women's division in her sport.
These aren't great examples as neither of these two actually have the skill to have been given the opportnities they did and only got to where they did because they were women.

Wie was brutal when playing with men and hasn't been all that great with the women either.

Patrick has been handed every advantage imaginable and still is at best an average driver. That would be expected of almost any driver below her in the standings if they were given the same advantages. In fact looking at the team/equipment she has had she has probably done worse than what would be expected for an average-below average driver.
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Old 05-13-2012, 10:44 AM   #20
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They may be misguided but I don't think following their policy is a big deal.

Their school has rules that they don't participate in coed sports. There is a coed team in their league. They have chosen to forfeit to honor their archaic rules.

This would be upsetting if the team with the girl had been forced to forfeit or if she was disqualified but that's not the case.

I'm more embarrassed that the team with the girl was willing to sit her the first time these two teams played.
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