Removing an Electric Outlet - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Slava · 05-09-2012, 06:36 AM

I'm going to explain the situation as simple as possible and hopefully it makes sense. I am putting a granite counter in, and am doing the prep work myself. Part of what I am doing is removing a "bar" kind of shelf and basically leveling off an already existing counter. Not a huge deal, I figure I will literally just cut the wall off there, and the granite will go across the top.

There is an outlet in that portion though, and I just want to make sure I deal with it properly. So how is it best? Obviously I am more concerned with the live wire that will be left, as I can remove the socket easily enough. But, do I just leave that now useless wire in the wall? Is it enough to just tape up the end or is that ridiculous? (It seems less than smart, which is why I thought I should ask!). I can't just leave that breaker off indefinitely because there are other sockets and appliances there.

Anyway, I hope this makes sense.

Boblobla · 05-09-2012, 06:56 AM

Are you wanting to leave the live wire in the wall and not have any access to it? If so, I do not believe this is allowed. I have a code book at home I can check. Could you move the outlet down the wall?

Kybosh · 05-09-2012, 07:01 AM

I think Boblobla's Law Blog is right. I believe that you'll have to move the receptacle/wiring to an accessible location.

Slava · 05-09-2012, 07:14 AM

Ya, I don't really want to keep the outlet. Once I cut the counter/wall off there its useless. I really don't have anywhere to put the outlet once this is done either. Basically I want it gone completely once this is done, but its the live wire I was concerned about. I received a PM to deal with that, but maybe I should have it removed entirely.

surferguy · 05-09-2012, 07:27 AM

yes, take the wire out completely or have it disconnected at the panel.

You Need a Thneed · 05-09-2012, 07:30 AM

Do you know where the other end of the live wire is? It probably comes from another receptacle. Find it, unhook it there, pull the whole wire out if you can, and if you can't, put mattered on each end of the wire.

You don't want to have a live wire just going to nothing.
If there is any place at all to place the receptacle lower down, that's what I'd do.

Jacks · 05-09-2012, 08:39 AM

If you can pull the wire from the previous receptacle/light fixture that would be best but it may be hard to determine which one it is. Also the wire is probably stapled to a stud somewhere alone the way.

Personally I would grab a small junction box with a metal plate cover, mount the box on a stud below the cut off line, pull the exposed wire into the box using the proper connector, cap off the wires with marets and then close off the box. Not sure if that is legal with code but it would be safe.

Box
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/util...-7-8-in/977520
Cover
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/util...k-cover/977524
Connector
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/3-8-...-of-125/910047
Marets, one for hot, one for neutral, one for ground, hook ground up to junction box also.
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/marr...ck-of-3/907010

sec304 · 05-09-2012, 08:45 AM

You need to use a junction box with a plate on it to make sure it's a safe connection. It makes more sense just to keep the plug-in lower on your wall rather than have a useless junction box that will be visible anyways (if you want to stay within code).

Even though you think you'll never need a plug-in there, I bet it'll come in handy at some point.

Rathji · 05-09-2012, 09:02 AM

Either remove the wire entirely, move the plug, or put a junction box in.

Doing the junction box is just as much of a pain as the a plug, so unless you know there the wire connects to, you might as well put a plug below the counter height (either inside the cupboards, for future use like a garburator or hobo body part disposal, or on the outside for occasional appliance use.

Northendzone · 05-09-2012, 10:09 AM

If you guys are suggesting that the OP bury the junction box with live wires that does not seem like a good idea regardless if the wire is capped off with merrets. Holmes on Homes has routinely mocked this practice (and it just makes sense).

Seems to me that the best idea is to make sure that wire is dead by disconnecting it at the previous fixture or the panel.

Slava · 05-09-2012, 10:26 AM

Well I guess I will try to pull the wire entirely. I was hoping for an easier way (basically leaving it in the wall), but there is an outlet on the other side of the wall about 3-4 feet below. Most likely I suppose it runs there and I will try to deal with it from that end.

I can't really keep the socket though. Because my plan is to cut away about 1 1/2 feet off and this includes where the socket is, there is not a place to put it. Although I could have it under the sink I suppose, I basically don't think it would ever be useful there, so I might as well remove it entirely.

Rathji · 05-09-2012, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northendzone

If you guys are suggesting that the OP bury the junction box with live wires that does not seem like a good idea regardless if the wire is capped off with merrets. Holmes on Homes has routinely mocked this practice (and it just makes sense).

Seems to me that the best idea is to make sure that wire is dead by disconnecting it at the previous fixture or the panel.

I was suggesting that he installed it properly. I don't think anyone else was suggesting he put the junction box on and bury it inside the wall, because that would be foolish.

GreatWhiteEbola · 05-09-2012, 10:42 AM

Post some pics of both outlets.

Bindair Dundat · 05-09-2012, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slava

Well I guess I will try to pull the wire entirely. I was hoping for an easier way (basically leaving it in the wall), but there is an outlet on the other side of the wall about 3-4 feet below. Most likely I suppose it runs there and I will try to deal with it from that end.

I can't really keep the socket though. Because my plan is to cut away about 1 1/2 feet off and this includes where the socket is, there is not a place to put it. Although I could have it under the sink I suppose, I basically don't think it would ever be useful there, so I might as well remove it entirely.

Nobody else has stated it categorically...so I will.

Burying a junction box IS ILLEGAL by the code. Period.

Of all the cabinets in which to locate one, the sink cab is one of the better solutions as there are no potential issues with drawer depth clearances. The junction box can be located high in the back corner, where it will be mostly hidden from view by the sink. If you don't currently have a garburator installed then I would move the outlet to this location; that way it's there for anyone who may want to install one at a later date. Depending on the age of your house, there may be more than one circuit present in the outlet box. Look at the wire feeding the outlet. if it has three conductors (black, red, and a white neutral) then this is the case, and you will find two different breakers are feeding the top and bottom halves of the receptacle. Again (depending on the age), they may share a common neutral, one half may be sharing neutral with the outlet on the other side of the wall, there maybe a home run neutral, coming back from the other end and running through the box...etc, etc; depends on how the original sparky laid out his "home runs".

Pictures would really help here.

Sometimes it's simple but sometimes you'll end up leaving a dangerous situation...even if you think you got it right because everything still appears to work normally. Open neutrals are one such potential case. Overloaded neutrals are another.

I do a lot of kitchens and over the years I have found lots of neutrals overloaded by people who didn't know what they were doing. Sometimes the insulation is melted and charred; this happens when a 14ga conductor ends up carrying two or three times the load it's designed to handle. Circuit breakers don't always protect against this....BTW. This depends on how you go about "screwing it up".

But it's ONLY the "white wire"... you know?

The "white wire"...the "safe" one.

Northendzone · 05-09-2012, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rathji

I was suggesting that he installed it properly. I don't think anyone else was suggesting he put the junction box on and bury it inside the wall, because that would be foolish.

sorry, i should have word my thoughts differently. seems that we are all on the same page.

oilyfan · 05-09-2012, 12:31 PM

Does a garburator need a separate circuit? if not this would be a perfect use for this junction box as Bindair suggests.

Slava · 05-09-2012, 12:48 PM

Alright, I'll post some pics later and you guys can see what I mean. I'm basically positive that I should just buckle down and remove it entirely now, but I will put up a picture or two and you can see what I mean here.

Bindair Dundat · 05-09-2012, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilyfan

Does a garburator need a separate circuit? if not this would be a perfect use for this junction box as Bindair suggests.

Under the current code it does...for a new construction situation. This sounds like a situation where the "grandfather" rule book is in play, and (imo) you shouldn't run into any problems unless you're putting in the "Tim Taylor" 1.5 hp. model

.

Wormius · 05-09-2012, 01:37 PM

If you want to remove the junction box from where the unwanted outlet is, you'd at least need to disconnect the electrical wires from where that outlet received power from. Otherwise, you could marette (sp?) the wires, and leave them in the junction box and put a cover plate over it so they're still accessible.

Another question - is that unwanted outlet at the end of a daisy-chain of outlets or is it inbetween? If it is inbetween it might be more difficult to remove it entirely. You would have to either re-wire it, or marette the wires together and then again, put a plate to cover it up.

speede5 · 05-09-2012, 05:47 PM

1. You cannot leave a live wire in a wall, even if you marrette and tape it.
2. If you could find the other end in a box you could disconnect it, remove it from the box and leave the dead wire in the wall. Tht may be your o ly option if the wire has been stapled somewhere in between and can't be pulled through.
3. You cannot leave the wire in the wall and just disconnected in the other box.
4. All junction boxes need to be accessible, not visible. It can be inside a cupboard or under the sink.
5. You can terminate in a junction box. Just feed the wires in, cap and tape and your golden.
6. It sounds like you are doing a lot of work. Punch a few holes in the drywall and fix it right. Drywall is cheap and easy to patch. Your probably throwing some tile up anyway so it is even easier.
7. Pics would help a lot.

I've done extensive renovations on 6 houses, plus I work on other peoples. I am not an electrician but I have done all my houses on homeowners permits and never had an issue. Just so you know I'm not guessing.