Quebecers can jump health care queue by paying - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

calculoso · 06-09-2005, 11:44 AM

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Quote:

Four of the court's seven judges involved in the decision concluded that:

* wait times in the province have grown too long;
* and denying patients the right to seek private health care insurance violates Quebec's charter of rights.

...

Dr. Albert Schumacher, president of the Canadian Medical Association, says the ruling could "fundamentally change the very foundations of medicare as we now know it.''

...

Thursday's ruling means that Quebecers can now sidestep waiting lists by paying for faster medical treatment -- at least until a new law is created.

I wonder what the reaction of the Federal Liberals will be in response to this. We've seen that they enjoy allowing the Supreme Court to dictate laws to them in the past, but somehow I don't think they'll do it this time.

dustygoon · 06-09-2005, 11:47 AM

I think the key is being able to buy insurance rather than just paying for the treatment outright. The "upper" tier gets pretty big versus if they were to allow you to pay for the treatment out of your own pocket. European countries seem to do alright with a two tier.

Frank the Tank · 06-09-2005, 11:54 AM

Finally, some sense comes into Canadian health care.

CaptainCrunch · 06-09-2005, 12:07 PM

Holy crap its a hidden agenda

Resolute 14 · 06-09-2005, 12:11 PM

I love the irony of the Quebec government threatening to use the notwithstanding clause to set aside this ruling, even though the notwithstanding clause is included in a constitution it doesnt recognize.

HOZ · 06-09-2005, 07:10 PM

Good for them. Alberta should follow suit.

Considering Martin visits a private health care clinic in Quebec you'd think people would find it a bit hipocritical that he denies this to every other Canadian!

MarchHare · 06-09-2005, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Considering Martin visits a private health care clinic in Quebec you'd think people would find it a bit hipocritical that he denies this to every other Canadian!

Really? So Martin's clinic in Quebec exists solely to serve one patient?

Incinerator · 06-09-2005, 08:04 PM

So when is Alberta's turn? I sure as hell don't want to sit in the ER for 16 hours next time I get a beer bottle smashed on my head at work :P

Bend it like Bourgeois · 06-09-2005, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@Jun 9 2005, 11:07 AM
Holy crap its a hidden agenda

I'd love to fast forward 2 years and see if this changes anything.

tjinaz · 06-10-2005, 06:42 AM

Wait... I thought the Canadian healthcare system was pretty good? Why would you possibly need US style Healthcare insurance? So now in this senario you would have to pay for the same care twice. Once with the additional tax money to support the healthcare system, and again through the private insurance. That doesn't sound too good.

Frank the Tank · 06-10-2005, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tjinaz@Jun 10 2005, 07:42 AM
Wait... I thought the Canadian healthcare system was pretty good? Why would you possibly need US style Healthcare insurance? So now in this senario you would have to pay for the same care twice. Once with the additional tax money to support the healthcare system, and again through the private insurance. That doesn't sound too good.

No the Canadian health care system is a joke. All this is saying is that if you have the money and are willing to pay for some extra private insurance, then you can get that CT scan in 2 days instead of 6 months. Thats all. The Canadian health care system is in shambles, throwing gobs of money at it has never helped, and it never will but unfortunately most Canadians are under the illusion that anything but what we currently have is the spawn of Satan. Our health care system was started as a tax grab, its still a tax grab, it will always be a tax grab.

Resolute 14 · 06-10-2005, 07:29 AM

Well, I wouldnt call it a joke, but it does need help.

Going with the paying for private insurance for a cat scan thing... If people are willing to buy the extra insurance so they can have procedures like a cat scan done in two days rather than waiting up to six months by a private facility, it takes these people out of the line in the public system, reducing the wait for patients who dont have that private insurance.

Everybody can benefit from a hybrid system, if done right.

ernie · 06-10-2005, 08:35 AM

There is one major corrolary that needs to be realised though....in order for line to be shortened you need to increase the number of staff and make sure you are still getting enough and up to date equipment on the public side. In many places in Canada that have some private services what is happening is that the public doctors are moving part or full time into the private system but that man power is not getting replaced in the public sector. Basically you get people paying some money to, for lack of a better term, "jump the queue" but the doctor and technicians they are using left the public sector and were not replaced so the public lineup doesn't get any shorter at all.

edit:In the end that is what the government has to solve...not trying to fight private health care but making sure the money to the public sector is used appropriately and know-how keeps pace with the private sector. Instead of fighting the inevitable, start trying to finds ways to integrate the two systems so that all people can be provided with good care.

Resolute 14 · 06-10-2005, 08:39 AM

That would be the fault of the people that maintain the public side of health care...

ernie · 06-10-2005, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Snakeeye@Jun 10 2005, 07:39 AM
That would be the fault of the people that maintain the public side of health care...

Agreed and I edited to say that. I just forgot to complete my thoughts the first time round....

FlamesAddiction · 06-10-2005, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@Jun 9 2005, 06:07 PM
Holy crap its a hidden agenda

Who's hidden agenda?

This wasn't a parliamentary decision, and I am sure most Liberals would not like it.

Personally, I don't care all that much, as long as the decision doesn't allow people with more money to "cut in line".

calculoso · 06-10-2005, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction+Jun 10 2005, 04:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FlamesAddiction @ Jun 10 2005, 04:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Personally, I don't care all that much, as long as the decision doesn't allow people with more money to "cut in line". [/b]

you mean like this?

<!--QuoteBegin-"Article"
Thursday's ruling means that Quebecers can now sidestep waiting lists by paying for faster medical treatment -- at least until a new law is created.[/quote]

FlamesAddiction · 06-10-2005, 06:33 PM

Yea, like that.

Nothing like killing the poor I guess.

Mean Mr. Mustard · 06-10-2005, 06:52 PM

FA - killing the poor? I don't get how that is killing the poor. In fact if it is done properly would it not reduce the amount of time which one would spend waiting in a line, and thus possibly help save the poor. These people are still putting tax dollars towards the public system also.

But there is very little that one can do to argue against dramatics.

FlamesAddiction · 06-10-2005, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Jun 11 2005, 12:52 AM
FA - killing the poor? I don't get how that is killing the poor. In fact if it is done properly would it not reduce the amount of time which one would spend waiting in a line, and thus possibly help save the poor. These people are still putting tax dollars towards the public system also.

But there is very little that one can do to argue against dramatics.

So how does allowing wealthy people to cut in line in front of poor people on waiting lists reduce the amount of time everyone waits? It's still the same medical facilities that everyone uses whether you let the rich for first, and the poor go second.

How do you do it "properly" to save time?