San Francisco couple charged with murder of teen daughter's pimp

[Displaced Flames fan]

http://www.kansas.com/2012/06/15/237...ay-couple.html

Not sure what they were thinking. I can imagine the rage but during the entire planning and stalking process I've got to think I would realize that if go through with this I'm going to prison to work for my own pimp.

[blankall]

I can definitely see how this couple resorted to this. The pimp/prostitute relationship is one that current legal systems are totally inept at dealing with. They probably felt like they had two choices:

1) Let their daughter continue to be a prostitute, while this guy laughed his way to the bank; and

2) Deal with the issue themselves.

I don't condone murder but definitely see where they were coming from.

[troutman]

S.F. couple kill daughter's alleged pimp, cops say
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...MNF01P1GIH.DTL

Father of slain pimp: Vigilantism no answer
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...MNED1P2450.DTL

[You Need a Thneed]

So, the main difference between this story and the other one is that here the parents carefully sought the guy out to kill him, and in the other story, the Father killed the assaulter on the spot?

[Ozy_Flame]

^^^ The only difference is pre-meditation. So if you think about doing it for at least a day or so longer, well then you go to jail. However, if you act on impulse and fire from the hip, that's excusable!

However, I'm not sure the parents exhausted all their courses of actions. A man touching a father's daughter and being caught in the act with her immediate safety at risk is the obvious difference.

[TurdFerguson]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

So, the main difference between this story and the other one is that here the parents carefully sought the guy out to kill him, and in the other story, the Father killed the assaulter on the spot?

Big difference between a 4 year old being molested and a 17 year old being pimped out I think. Both are disgusting but pretty different situations i think..

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by TurdFerguson

Big difference between a 4 year old being molested and a 17 year old being pimped out I think. Both are disgusting but pretty different situations i think..

Is it really different? Both a sexual crimes against underage, unconsenting individuals that I would imagine could cause the same types of harm.

[TurdFerguson]

At that level, yes the crimes are the same I suppose. A 4 year old is far less developed and able to protect themselves, both physically and socially though. That is the big difference to me.

[YYC in LAX]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Is it really different? Both a sexual crimes against underage, unconsenting individuals that I would imagine could cause the same types of harm.

I know what you're saying but they are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO different. A 4 year old man....4 years old....

[blankall]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Is it really different? Both a sexual crimes against underage, unconsenting individuals that I would imagine could cause the same types of harm.

Yes different. While I agree that both are forms of sex offences, the pimp relationship is all about psychological control. At the age of 17, the daughter is essentially an adult. However, she's in a relationship with this pimp that is both controlling and illegal. The problem is the only real way to convict someone of pimping is to have the prostitute testify agaisnt the pimp. If a pimp has control over someone to the point they can convince them to sell their body to strangers for money, what are the odds that this same girl is likely to testify against him.

The simple truth is that this is one of the true failings of the Western legal system.

To here the pimp's father say things like:

He was a handsome guy with tattoos, knew how to dress, how to smile, and some women just fall for it,

is totally sickening. He obviously knew exactly what was going on. The police should find a way to lock him up on an accessory charge.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by YYC in LAX

I know what you're saying but they are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO different. A 4 year old man....4 years old....

I know what you are saying too, absolutely. But from the perspective of the legal system, I'm not sure if they are different or should be different.

[YYC in LAX]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I know what you are saying too, absolutely. But from the perspective of the legal system, I'm not sure if they are different or should be different.

As far as differences in the legal system, the fact that the girl is over 16 (age of consent...I think) might play a factor; in Canada anyway. You'd have to prove she wasn't consenting I would imagine, where a 4 year old clearly wouldn't be consenting. Just an idea.

Either, way it's filth.

[puckhog]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I know what you are saying too, absolutely. But from the perspective of the legal system, I'm not sure if they are different or should be different.

I'm just a law student and I'm not too familiar with how things work in the US, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but the difference is not in the age of the victim or the nature of the abuse suffered by the daughters, but the circumstances. If these parents had witnessed the pimp attacking their daughter (or anyone for that matter), they would be allowed take steps to prevent/stop the attack. This can include killing him, if there was a threat of death or serious injury posed to the victim of the attack. We make allowances when the threat is imminent. In the other case, there was an immediate threat to his daughter, so that father is allowed stop it. There may be a question as to whether he went too far, but courts are generally not too precise in weighing how much force was necessary vs. how much he used, unless it is obvious that he went way overboard.

In this case, the parents suspected (apparently weren't even sure?) that this guy was pimping their daughter, and hunted him down. There were other options available to them that the father in the other case didn't have (if he had taken the time to call the cops, the assault would likely be over by the time they got there).

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

^^^ The only difference is pre-meditation. So if you think about doing it for at least a day or so longer, well then you go to jail. However, if you act on impulse and fire from the hip, that's excusable!

However, I'm not sure the parents exhausted all their courses of actions. A man touching a father's daughter and being caught in the act with her immediate safety at risk is the obvious difference.

That and the actual major difference, the fact that the other case is a situation of someone coming to the defense of their child during the immediate commission of the act. The father of the 4 year old isn't getting off because he didn't think about things, he's getting off because the defense of his child is a defense to the crime of murder.

[Locke]

You know, they're always saying that theres no place for vigilante justice. I think based on the increasing frequency of vigilante justice there should be a better way to deal with this.

Either the increasing frequency of vigilantism is an indictment of the justice system or popular opinion on the efficiency of police services, but maybe its time people took a long hard look at the current state of affairs in regards to social justice.

That said, it would be interesting to see a police department openly welcome vigilantes. I dont know what would happen, and certainly wouldnt want to live there, but it would be an interesting social experiment.

[FlamesAddiction]

So now this 17 yearl old girl who has already been a runaway and prostitute, will have no parents to watch out for her as they will be in prison.

That was well thought out.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

So now this 17 yearl old girl who has already been a runaway and prostitute, will have no parents to watch out for her as they will be in prison.

That was well thought out.

Obviously they werent wasting their premeditation time on useless things like 'logic' and 'rational thinking.'

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Locke

You know, they're always saying that theres no place for vigilante justice. I think based on the increasing frequency of vigilante justice there should be a better way to deal with this.

Either the increasing frequency of vigilantism is an indictment of the justice system or popular opinion on the efficiency of police services, but maybe its time people took a long hard look at the current state of affairs in regards to social justice.

That said, it would be interesting to see a police department openly welcome vigilantes. I dont know what would happen, and certainly wouldnt want to live there, but it would be an interesting social experiment.

I highly doubt that's the case, I'd say there's a perception that there's more vigilantism for the same reason there's a perception that there is more violence, increased access to news.

[CaptainCrunch]

The boy was a scumbag who fed on human misery, I'm not to upset that he's been removed from this plain of existance.

I'm sympathetic to the parents of the girl, what they did was wrong and they will probably be punished for it, but at the end of the day they did the world a favor.