Evil

[RougeUnderoos]

The word "evil" gets bandied about here quite often and it's one of those words that probably means different things to different people. It has a religious connotation for me but I don't know if it's the same for the rest of you. For example, when I read "communism is evil" I think that whoever wrote that believes that somewhere along the way "The Devil" had something to do with it. Or at least that mysterious "Dark Forces" are involved. Myself, I am of the opinion that "The Devil" is "Not Real" but others probably have a different idea. Hell (no pun intended) some people might think that I am in the clutches of Satan because I don't believe the hype he (she?) gets.

George W. Bush uses the term quite often and he cultivates a real "churchy" image so I think he is talking about the "supernatural" when he's up there yakking away about "evil doers" and "gathering storms".

Anyhow... what does "evil" mean? Does it just mean "bad" or is it a bible thing?

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
3. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
4. Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
5. Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.

[transplant99]

To me the meaning has nothing to do with religion actually.

It has everything to do with the unlimited boundaries of humans to do harm to other living beings.

Just for fun i looked up the dictionary definition:


e·vil ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vl)
adj. e·vil·er, e·vil·est
Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.

n.
The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
An evil force, power, or personification.
Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction: the social evils of poverty and injustice.


No mention of it as being related to a religous referance. Though morals are often associated...and that can be mixed in with religion.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Nothing to do with spirituality for me either.

It's about basic morality...what's right and what's wrong in relation to the treatement of other people.

Some would argue what is moral is debeateable, but I think when you are talking about the treatment of other human beings it's not very debateable at all.

[FlamesAddiction]

For something to "evil" IMO, it has to be intrinsically bad independent from humans.

Are guns evil, or are guns in the hands of criminals evil?
Are nuclear reactors evil, or just nuclear reactors in the hands of terrorists?
Is communism evil, or just communism in the hands of tyrants?

IMO, nothing on this planet can be "evil" by it's nature, except for the actions of people. To be wicked enough to be called evil, there has to be an intent to cause harm just for the sake of hurting or destroying, and only humans are capable of that.

[Hockey_Rules_22]

I agree with transplant 99. I told my friend she's evil sometimes esp when she's says things.

[Table 5]

to me, evil is spelled o-i-l-e-r.

[troutman]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
U.N. Representative : So, Mr. Evil...
Dr. Evil : It's Dr. Evil, I didn't spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called "mister," thank you very much.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Evil : You're not quite evil enough. You're semi-evil. You're quasi-evil. You're the margarine of evil. You're the Diet Coke of evil, just one calorie, not evil enough.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Personally, I think evil is when someone does something heinous that goes beyond the norm of society in which they live, or beyond their normal character. Evil lurks in the hearts of all men.

[octothorp]

Good question. I was mentioning in another thread (trips that will change you, or something like that) about how I never really thought about evil as anything more than a convenient device that writers and filmmakers use to explain the actions of someone when they want the audience to hate the character without really having to explore their motivations. (ouch, brutal sentence...) And then I went to Aushwitz/Birkenau, and that completely changed my mind, convinced me that there was such a thing as evil in the real world. Personally, I reserve the use of 'evil' for really, really heavy things like genocide, and generally when it is pervasive through a society or culture, as opposed to being the actions of a single individual. For me, it has to be an immoral perversion prevelent in a society or group--in my mind a single murder, for example, does not constitute evil, no matter how immoral and poorly-justified that killing might be. I'm close to thinking it's 'not real', as Rouge suggests, but for me there are a few things that just can't be explained through any amount of psychology or anthropology.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Aug 22 2004, 06:53 PM
To be wicked enough to be called evil, there has to be an intent to cause harm just for the sake of hurting or destroying, and only humans are capable of that.

Tell my dad that after he recieved 12 wasp stings

[Frank the Tank]

To me evil is just the second-most over-used word in the english language, right behind "hero".

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Frank the Tank@Aug 23 2004, 07:10 PM
To me evil is just the second-most over-used word in the english language, right behind "hero".

I though the second-most over-used word in the english language was "Weapons of Mass Destruction". Oops, that's the the second-most over-used phrase in the english language, right after "Is our children learning?"

[Frank the Tank]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald+Aug 23 2004, 07:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lanny_MacDonald @ Aug 23 2004, 07:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Frank the Tank@Aug 23 2004, 07:10 PM
To me evil is just the second-most over-used word in the english language, right behind "hero".

I though the second-most over-used word in the english language was "Weapons of Mass Destruction". Oops, that's the the second-most over-used phrase in the english language, right after "Is our children learning?" [/b][/quote]
The first most over-used phrase is; "I did not have sexual relations with that woman".

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Frank the Tank@Aug 23 2004, 07:53 PM
The first most over-used phrase is; "I did not have sexual relations with that woman".

Really? Never heard that one used much. Now when I was young and hanging with my buddies I heard a lot of "I did have sexual relations with that woman", or something to that context (this is a family site).

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by hulkrogan+Aug 23 2004, 06:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hulkrogan @ Aug 23 2004, 06:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-FlamesAddiction@Aug 22 2004, 06:53 PM
To be wicked enough to be called evil, there has to be an intent to cause harm just for the sake of hurting or destroying, and only humans are capable of that.

Tell my dad that after he recieved 12 wasp stings [/b][/quote]
Right, because I'm sure wasps have a capability to act morally. Unless of course you meant W.A.S.P.S.. :P

[troutman]

Professor Tolkien on the nature of evil:

http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~std26/FOTR.pdf

http://www.wickedness.net/ejv1n3/book.pdf

There was a Fourth Conference on Evil and Human Wickedness in Prague in 2003.


The Wickedness.Net project seeks to explore all issues relating to evil and human wickedness. In particular, it has two main aims;

to provide a comprehensive forum which is committed to promoting inter-disciplinary and multi-disciplinary explorations of, and perspectives on evil and wickedness.
to make available to scholars, researchers, and any one interested a set of research tools that bring together a wide variety of materials and resources which relate to this subject.

What is "evil"?:

http://www.wickedness.net/Foreword.pdf

[KevanGuy]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald@Aug 23 2004, 12:33 PM
Personally, I think evil is when someone does something heinous that goes beyond the norm of society in which they live, or beyond their normal character. Evil lurks in the hearts of all men.

Interesting. So something evil in one society may not be considered evil in another? I enjoy sorting through relative terms like 'evil'. Not only is it a very relative term it is also subjective. And if it is a 'majority' of society that determines the 'norm' then that would mean, obviosulsy, that some members of a society would deem an action/idea 'not-evil'. I wonder which actions/ideas are considered evil (using your definition) by some societies and deemed 'not-evil' by anoher? Cannibalism? Extermination of the Jews in WWII Germany? Though, I suppose it is debatable wether or not the majority of German society at the time would have considered that 'not-evil'.

That is another point too I guess. If a government policy dicates the 'norm' of society does that make the population evil or just the government or both? I guess it depends on the scope of the question.

Interesting stuff. Trying not to look at the world ethnocentrically can be tough.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by KevanGuy+Aug 24 2004, 04:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (KevanGuy @ Aug 24 2004, 04:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Lanny_MacDonald@Aug 23 2004, 12:33 PM
Personally, I think evil is when someone does something heinous that goes beyond the norm of society in which they live, or beyond their normal character. Evil lurks in the hearts of all men.

Interesting. So something evil in one society may not be considered evil in another? I enjoy sorting through relative terms like 'evil'. Not only is it a very relative term it is also subjective. And if it is a 'majority' of society that determines the 'norm' then that would mean, obviosulsy, that some members of a society would deem an action/idea 'not-evil'. I wonder which actions/ideas are considered evil (using your definition) by some societies and deemed 'not-evil' by anoher? Cannibalism? Extermination of the Jews in WWII Germany? Though, I suppose it is debatable wether or not the majority of German society at the time would have considered that 'not-evil'.

That is another point too I guess. If a government policy dicates the 'norm' of society does that make the population evil or just the government or both? I guess it depends on the scope of the question.

Interesting stuff. Trying not to look at the world ethnocentrically can be tough. [/b][/quote]
So you suggest that societal norm should not be a consideration for evil? To George Bush and America, Usama bin Laden and his cohorts are evil, and the US in the right and on the side of God. To Islamists and their supporters, America and its loose morals is evil and they are right and on the side of God (Allah). Who is right? Who is evil?

To me, both are right, and both are wrong. In each society they are correct in their assumptions of the other in their own accepted societal standard. In an educated society that understands both sides (in a non-existant vaccuum so to speak) they are both probably wrong, as the understanding of the motivations of each is intergrated into the norm, making the actions of neither evil. Again, it boils down to the society and understanding what is considered beyond the norm. Moral flexibility of the individual comes ito question in defining evil, but that is the personal perception. Since a societal standard is a median representation of the populous' beliefs I believe that any significant deviation is balanced out and provides a fair and balanced definition of evil.

[KevanGuy]

So you suggest that societal norm should not be a consideration for evil??

No, I didnt mean to come off that way. I agree.

In an educated society that understands both sides (in a non-existant vaccuum so to speak) they are both probably wrong,

That's true and interesting. If such a society did exist what would they consider evil? Since is doesn't, is there truly evil in the world? Or is evil just a term created by man to describe a feeling? I suppose that is where some people would insert religion into the discussion.