Tata motors: Cars that run on compressed air?

[Tron_fdc]

Tata Motors and ex-Formula One engineer Guy N. from a Luxembourg MDI have come up with a car that runs on air. Dubbed the Tata Mini CAT, or Air Car, the environmentally-friendly car uses no petrol, requires little maintenance and has a range of around 300km between re-gassing. Tata hopes to have it on the market in India in 2012.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/141944/t...debut-in-2012/

Interesting concept. I know what killed the hydrogen cars was the lack of infrastructure to refuel them, but this is an interesting idea if all you need is compressed air.

I will say one thing though. I sure as heck wouldn't want to be rear ended with a 4350psi canister somewhere in the vehicle.

[Travis Munroe]

I dont see it catching on anytime soon. How long has it taken for electric cars to catch on and they are still a rare sighting.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Tata Motors and ex-Formula One engineer Guy N. from a Luxembourg MDI have come up with a car that runs on air. Dubbed the Tata Mini CAT, or Air Car, the environmentally-friendly car uses no petrol, requires little maintenance and has a range of around 300km between re-gassing. Tata hopes to have it on the market in India in 2012.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/141944/t...debut-in-2012/

Interesting concept. I know what killed the hydrogen cars was the lack of infrastructure to refuel them, but this is an interesting idea if all you need is compressed air.

I will say one thing though. I sure as heck wouldn't want to be rear ended with a 4350psi canister somewhere in the vehicle.

Depends on what kind of tank they are using really. I'm sure they could design a tank of fiberglass or some other more flexible material that is less likely to explode in the event of an accident.

If they really have managed to create a veihcle that can run 300km on one fill, for $2.00, and with a top speed of over 100 km/hr, this could be a game changer. I have my doubts to the range. 300 km seems ridiculously far for this kind of system.

[Wormius]

I understand that these Tata's are pretty popular overseas since they are quite inexpensive. I think in areas that don't have much infrastructure already built up around petroleum products, this might be able to gain some footing, or certain communities that would prefer the technology.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

I dont see it catching on anytime soon. How long has it taken for electric cars to catch on and they are still a rare sighting.

Electric cars up until have sucked. The batteries on them were awful. They had short ranges and needed special power stations to be refilled. It's only the latest generation (IE this year's) of electric vehicles that are in any way practical. We simply did not have the battery technology until now to produce a viable electric vehicle.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by blankall

Depends on what kind of tank they are using really. I'm sure they could design a tank of fiberglass or some other more flexible material that is less likely to explode in the event of an accident.

If they really have managed to create a veihcle that can run 300km on one fill, for $2.00, and with a top speed of over 100 km/hr, this could be a game changer. I have my doubts to the range. 300 km seems ridiculously far for this kind of system.

That's probably going down a hill. Getting back to your point of origin is a problem.

[Kybosh]

Soothing engine rumblings would be replaced with annoying SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. . . . everywhere, all the time.

[MarchHare]

Even if the range is only 100 KM, that should be way more than enough for a typical commute or running errands in the city.

What kind of compressor is needed for a fill-up? Could you buy something like this from Canadian Tire and refill the tank at home? Or even better, keep a portable compressor in the trunk and fill up anywhere you can find an electric outlet?

[Edit]
Answered my own question from the OP's article:

Users will then be able to re-gas the car at certain filling stations that are equipped with special tanks of compressed air, in around three to four minutes for around $2. It will also come with its own generator pack which can be used at home capable of re-gassing the tanks in around four hours.

[Hemi-Cuda]

so if you get stranded in the middle of nowhere with empty tanks, can you pull out a bicycle pump and start hammering away to get you to the nearest station?

[afc wimbledon]

Users will then be able to re-gas the car at certain filling stations that are equipped with special tanks of compressed air, in around three to four minutes for around $2. It will also come with its own generator pack which can be used at home capable of re-gassing the tanks in around four hours. And all the staff working at the stations will be cute looking 19 year old girls, and women will think the car is sexy as hell and it will cost 20 bucks and there will be no problems what so ever.

Never works out

[CaptainCrunch]

Never needs gas and you can replace the transmission for 10 bucks

Beat that

[chalms04]

Hook up a 12v compressor... perpetual motion machine!

[Northendzone]

i love tata's - always have and always will

[photon]

Yeah I'm skeptical of the 300km range too, though it does look like a very small and light car.

And unless the electricity is being provided by a renewable energy source, this is actually worse than burning fossil fuels directly.

Fossil Fuel -> Car is going to be more efficient than Fossil Fuel -> Electricity -> Compressor -> Air -> Car

And the compression / decompression stages are very lossy.. compressing the air will generate lots of waste heat, though using it will cool the air which is great for A/C

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Tata Motors and ex-Formula One engineer Guy N. from a Luxembourg MDI have come up with a car that runs on air. Dubbed the Tata Mini CAT, or Air Car, the environmentally-friendly car uses no petrol, requires little maintenance and has a range of around 300km between re-gassing. Tata hopes to have it on the market in India in 2012.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/141944/t...debut-in-2012/

Interesting concept. I know what killed the hydrogen cars was the lack of infrastructure to refuel them, but this is an interesting idea if all you need is compressed air.

I will say one thing though. I sure as heck wouldn't want to be rear ended with a 4350psi canister somewhere in the vehicle.

When has the hydrogen car died? It is still in testing phase in California.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by chalms04

Hook up a 12v compressor... perpetual motion machine!

We respect the laws of thermodynamics on this message board

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by photon

Yeah I'm skeptical of the 300km range too, though it does look like a very small and light car.

And unless the electricity is being provided by a renewable energy source, this is actually worse than burning fossil fuels directly.

Fossil Fuel -> Car is going to be more efficient than Fossil Fuel -> Electricity -> Compressor -> Air -> Car

And the compression / decompression stages are very lossy.. compressing the air will generate lots of waste heat, though using it will cool the air which is great for A/C

The efficiencey thing isn't necessarily true.
People have said the same thing about electric cars for quite some time, and it just isn't true.

An industrial sized coal power plant is going to be way more efficient than a small car engine. It's entirely possible that the compressed air car could be more efficient through the entire cycle.

Just look at the cost. If the power is being produced by some fossil fuel, would it be feasible to charge $2.00 to fill the tank with compressed air?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

Soothing engine rumblings would be replaced with annoying SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. . . . everywhere, all the time.

A and then the guy who invented those sacks that hang from the trailer hitch will invent a whoopie cushion that attaches to the tail pipe, so you'll be driving your air compressed car with your balls swinging in the beeze of obnoxious fart sounds.

Could be a winner.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by photon

Yeah I'm skeptical of the 300km range too, though it does look like a very small and light car.

Also means it's a pretty small tank. Unless they're devoting an unusually large amount of space for fuel storage, I'd doubt the 300km range. I'm thinking inside the range of 150km or less.

Originally Posted by photon

Fossil Fuel -> Car is going to be more efficient than Fossil Fuel -> Electricity -> Compressor -> Air -> Car

An industrial sized coal power plant is going to be way more efficient than a small car engine. It's entirely possible that the compressed air car could be more efficient through the entire cycle.

Probably, not entirely though. I think a car engine is about 30% efficient (and this is where I'm probably wrong...I'm just quoting from what I remember from my Thermo classes...). EurActive.com, for whatever it's worth (I recall some bias in some old reports...will need to find them) claims a coal power plant efficiency of near 31%. That, assuming my 1st number is correct, leaves VERY little room for energy transformation, way beyond what we can do at the moment.

http://www.euractiv.com/energy/analy...article-154672

Originally Posted by photon

though using it will cool the air which is great for A/C

Ah, but then we must consider the savings of energy from the gained cool air if it's used to replace air conditioners

[photon]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

The efficiencey thing isn't necessarily true.
People have said the same thing about electric cars for quite some time, and it just isn't true.

An industrial sized coal power plant is going to be way more efficient than a small car engine. It's entirely possible that the compressed air car could be more efficient through the entire cycle.

Good point about more efficient power plants (especially if you are trying to power your car with coal. ). I was thinking of gasoline.

But if we go with the industrial coal power plant:

Coal -> Electricity -> Compressor -> Air -> Car

I don't think is going to be more efficient than

Coal -> Electricity -> Battery -> Car

Just because of the amount of heat that'll be generated when you compress the air in the first place.

Efficiency isn't the only factor to consider, energy density per unit weight and per unit volume is important too to get a usable range in a vehicle of usable size, and compressed air might be better in those.

I'm still on the side of developing battery technology.

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Just look at the cost. If the power is being produced by some fossil fuel, would it be feasible to charge $2.00 to fill the tank with compressed air?

Hm, not sure. I googled air compressors and ones capable of 300 bar seem to to use 4kw, assuming a 4 hour charging period that's less than a dollar. Even if you double the time to compress to 8 hours or add in losses due to heat or whatever, $2 to fill a tank seems reasonable.

At least now, if you converted most of the cars on the road to compressed air, I think the price of electricity would probably change lol.