Foreign ownership of Canadian real estate

[THE SCUD]

The discussion in another thread got me to thinking:

What is CP's opinion on the huge influx of offshore asian real-estate investment in the Vancouver region (GVR) that has created an environment such that the hard-working Canadians who live there can't afford a decent home?

I don't live there, but it pisses me off, so I wrote the following to my MP:

Mr. Anders,

As a member of your riding I implore you to use your newly-minted majority government to put some limitations on foreign ownership of Canadian property, which harsh consequences for those who try to get around it (ie shell Canadian numbered companies used to buy property). I have family and friends in the lower mainland of BC who are unable to afford a house anywhere near that which their parents had, due to offshore Asians using our real estate as nothing more than a glorified piggy bank. It is making it impossible for an ethical, hardworking Canadian (be they white, black, brown or aqua skinned) to afford a home in the GVR.

I am afraid this is just the beginning of a problem that will wash all over our great country, as I have a few friends who are real estate agents and they are getting a lot of inquiries from foreign Asians investigating the purchase process for condos in Calgary and Edmonton. There are estimates that upwards of 20% of Vancouver’s condo are empty, simply purchased as safe-havens for illicit, offshore Asian money.

Please let me know what our fine, upstanding government is planning do to curb this problem, before it affects more than just the lower mainland.

Respectfully, The SCUD


It isn't effecting me right now, but you could certainly see them exhausting Vancouver and moving to a lucrative city like Calgary (probably not a hole like Edmonton )

[Ozy_Flame]

Do you really have to use the phrase "Asian tsunami?"

[THE SCUD]

Sorry, I will change it, didn't really think of the correlation.

[Canada 02]

I for one welcome our new Asian overlords

[CaptainCrunch]

Maybe we should be buying more real estate in Asia.

I'd like to buy some farm land in China and evict the #######s.

[THE SCUD]

As long as they stay away from Calgary and Van Isle property value inflation, I also welcome them and their incredulous amounts of monies (of which I would like some)

[Canada 02]

didn't the Tories win numerous seats in Ontario because they catered to Asian immigrants? I imagine your protest will fall on deaf ears.

Also, don't you feel dirty asking Rob Anders for help?

[Ozy_Flame]

While the property thing has never really struck me as a large deal (money will always continue to be poured into the Vancouver housing market, no matter where it comes from), I am against the number of foreign students who come to Canada, learn a higher education, and immediately head back to their home countries. This is especially true with those from China and Hong Kong. It just seems they're taking an education that could have otherwise gone to a Canadian who can make an impact here at home rather than taking skills abroad and losing an 'investment' so to speak. I know a fair chunk of "flighters" who showed up, took all the courses, didn't contribute anything to Canadian society, and high-tailed it out of here. That sort of thing bugs me, although I may be alone on this.

[bizaro86]

I posted this in the other thread before I saw you had made this one. Reposting it for relevance here.

If you really wanted to discourage foreign ownership you could charge foreigners higher property taxes. Florida does this with the "Homestead exemption" where properties owned by full time Florida residents get a property tax discount.

On the other hand, foreigners buying real estate puts a lot of money into Canadian hands. The sellers get more than they would have, the real estate industry (agents, mortgage providers, renovators, etc) are all better off, and the gov't gets more taxes (withholding tax on foreign owned property).

It might force young people into renting instead of buying, but at current BC prices that might be a blessing for them, not a curse.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

didn't the Tories win numerous seats in Ontario because they catered to Asian immigrants? I imagine your protest will fall on deaf ears.

Also, don't you feel dirty asking Rob Anders for help?

Immigrant has implications of living in Canada does it not?

[THE SCUD]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

didn't the Tories win numerous seats in Ontario because they catered to Asian immigrants? I imagine your protest will fall on deaf ears.

Also, don't you feel dirty asking Rob Anders for help?

You have no idea.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I am against the number of foreign students who come to Canada, learn a higher education, and immediately head back to their home countries. This is especially true with those from China and Hong Kong. It just seems they're taking an education that could have otherwise gone to a Canadian who can make an impact here at home rather than taking skills abroad and losing an 'investment' so to speak. I know a fair chunk of "flighters" who showed up, took all the courses, didn't contribute anything to Canadian society, and high-tailed it out of here. That sort of thing bugs me, although I may be alone on this.

I'm pretty sure foreigners pay extra high tuition that the universities use to subsidize their other operations, thus increasing options for Canadians

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I'm pretty sure foreigners pay extra high tuition that the universities use to subsidize their other operations, thus increasing options for Canadians

That's great, but for the most part, they're not staying to use their skills in Canada. I'm a huge supporter of immigration, and hate to see talent lost at our expense. They may be paying high tuition, but the long-term economic loss, IMO, is far more costly.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by nik-

Immigrant has implications of living in Canada does it not?

sure, but don't you think Asian Canadians would be bothered by a policy that restricted Asian investment? The people buying the property could be friends, relatives, family members of Canadian citizens. Also, Asian Canadians may have been in the same situation of wanting to invest in Canada prior to residing here or gaining citizenship

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That's great, but for the most part, they're not staying to use their skills in Canada. I'm a huge supporter of immigration, and hate to see talent lost at our expense. They may be paying high tuition, but the long-term economic loss, IMO, is far more costly.

Would you try to force them to stay? We can choose whether or not to let them in for school, and benefit from them paying high tuition as well as rent/food/books while they're here.

But once they've graduated, if they leave there isn't much we can do to stop it.

Not letting them in in the first place doesn't make sense, since you wouldn't get the first set of benefits either.

[THE SCUD]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

sure, but don't you think Asian Canadians would be bothered by a policy that restricted Asian investment? The people buying the property could be friends, relatives, family members of Canadian citizens. Also, Asian Canadians may have been in the same situation of wanting to invest in Canada prior to residing here or gaining citizenship

I agree, and that's why I am a propagation of something like a 100% property tax on these people - if they really need/want the place, they can pay huge for it. If they don't actually need it, they'll likely bugger off somewhere else to inflate property values at the expense of residents of that area.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

sure, but don't you think Asian Canadians would be bothered by a policy that restricted Asian investment? The people buying the property could be friends, relatives, family members of Canadian citizens. Also, Asian Canadians may have been in the same situation of wanting to invest in Canada prior to residing here or gaining citizenship

His letter is targeted at foreign asian investment because that's what occurs in Vancouver. Policy in this direction should be blanket foreign property ownership.

[Discoste]

Originally Posted by fotze

I would hope the tuition is at least 'at cost' plus X%.

At U of C for 5 courses (one semester)
Canadian Student Total $3,131.93

International Student Total $9,452.78

International Student Differential:
Undergraduate - 200% of the international base tuition fee

As for foreign ownership:
Unfortunately, we all want more money (over-simplified example):
If a Canadian citizen was willing to offer you 300,000 for your condo and a wealthy foreigner offered 350,000, it'd be pretty hard to pass up the higher offer.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That's great, but for the most part, they're not staying to use their skills in Canada. I'm a huge supporter of immigration, and hate to see talent lost at our expense. They may be paying high tuition, but the long-term economic loss, IMO, is far more costly.

I think you're overestimating the number of foreign students and the number of Canadian students being displaced by them. There aren't a significant number of students that fit the description you've given, and even those that do aren't preventing top Canadian students from earning an education. They're bumping out the bottom rung, and I'd argue that hose on the bottom rung aren't typically going to make such dramatic impacts on the Canadian economy so as to be seriously missed. At the same time the increased tuition paid by foreign students allows for increased opportunities for Canadian students due to a decreased economic burden (or so it should, the way schools spend money is a different issue all together). I get your point, and I agree with it generally, I just don't think it's quite as big of an issue as it's being made out to be.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by THE SCUD

I agree, and that's why I am a propagation of something like a 100% property tax on these people - if they really need/want the place, they can pay huge for it. If they don't actually need it, they'll likely bugger off somewhere else to inflate property values at the expense of residents of that area.

Yeah, making yourself a market that is completely undesirable to investment seems like a great way to support a strong economy