TO couple raising "genderless" child

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Good? Bad? Crazy? The future of parenting?

A Toronto couple raising their 4-month-old without identifying the child as a boy or a girl have created a media firestorm in Canada, where some have likened the scenario to a "bizarre lab experiment" that seeks to undo thousands of years of social evolution.

Kathy Witterick, 38, and David Stocker, 39, are raising their third child, Storm, to be free of societal norms regarding gender. Is Storm male or female? The parents won't say, so no one knows except Storm's older brothers, Jazz and Kio, as well as a close family friend and two midwives who helped deliver the baby, according to the Toronto Star.

Clinton Anderson, director of the American Psychological Association's Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual Concerns Office, told FoxNews.com that while the organization supports gender nondiscrimination, there is no research available regarding potential harms or benefits to raising a so-called genderless child.

"I don't think the APA has any basis for concluding one way or the other on that issue," Anderson said. "In the short term, in the long term, there's really just no basis for saying. This is not an area of research that exists, to my knowledge."

What is certain, Anderson said, is that a "supportive" environment for any child is one that provides them love, nurturing care and a "good enough" context to develop.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/05...#ixzz1Nf9Xqg1r

[Coys1882]

haha - what a disaster this will be.

[Ark2]

Well, I guess they as parents have the right to raise their child as they see fit. In a couple of years though, I suspect that it won't really matter what they do, the child's sex will become pretty evident. Sounds like a couple of morons willing to exploit their child for some media attention, but we could also say the same thing to those lunatics that put their 4 year olds into beauty pageants.

[starseed]

Ridiculous parenting. How on earth is this child supposed to know if they cannot like blue or pink?

[CrusaderPi]

It reminds me of the obscure cartoon Mission Hill. The hippy couple didn't want their child defined by it's name so it was known as Baby Nameless. Once again, ladies and gentlemen, cartoon have shown us the future.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

So which bathroom will the kid use when it goes to school?

[burn_this_city]

Sounds like a good way to guarantee your kid will be f'ed up.

[-TC-]

the boundaries of human stupidity continue to expand....

[Hemi-Cuda]

those parents should be flogged for naming their kid Storm, nevermind the whole gender isssue

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

those parents should be flogged for naming their kid Storm, nevermind the whole gender isssue

What about Jazz and Kio?

[Nehkara]

To be fair:

1. The parents are not planning on keeping the child's gender private forever, they are suggesting they let the child make up their own mind about who they are.

2. There are a lot worse things than parents who love their children unconditionally for who and what they are.

3. People need to leave these people alone. IMO they are not doing harm to their children and honestly the kids are likely to suffer more harm from the media if this continues.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

To be fair:

1. The parents are not planning on keeping the child's gender private forever, they are suggesting they let the child make up their own mind about who they are.

2. There are a lot worse things than parents who love their children unconditionally for who and what they are.

3. People need to leave these people alone. IMO they are not doing harm to their children and honestly the kids are likely to suffer more harm from the media if this continues.

Numbers 1 and 2 I think most people will agree with. Whether or not they are doing harm is up for debate. Whether or not the child will suffer from this experiment is also debatable.

Most likely though, the kid will grow up to be just as messed as the rest of us. Although it (lol) will probably feel like it's (lol) issues are somehow unique, like the rest of us.

[Yasa]

I don't understand the point. If you have a boy, there's nothing wrong with raising him as a boy and if he realizes he's gay then that's fine; accept him and continue loving/raising him. Same goes for a girl. There's no need for ambiguity.

Edit: Love the tags. "It's Pat!" classic.

[JustAnotherGuy]

With their children having names like Storm, Jazz and Kio would a person expect this family to be even close to 'normal'?

[Devils'Advocate]

I kinda understand where these parents are coming from.

My brother has two kids: 1 boy and 1 girl.

The boy likes blue and the girl likes pink. Not because those are their favorite colours, but rather because that is what my brother and sister-in-law raised them to like. Blue vs pink rooms, blue vs pink clothes, etc.. The boy likes toys like dump trucks, Cars(tm), and Mario. The girl likes dolls, Dora and tea sets. Not necessarily because those are what they truly want to play with, but rather because those are the toys that my brother and sister-in-law buy for them. It just boggles my mind how two supposedly progressive parents have raised their children with such traditional gender roles. They are willing to put the boy in hockey, but won't put the girl in because they are afraid she will get hurt. Oi. Boys = tough; girls = fragile and weak.

I remember my Grade 11 English teacher telling us a story about going to the doctor's office. She was taking her 4 year old boy into a clinic because she couldn't get an appointment with her regular doctor and the boy was quite sick. They went into the room and the female doctor came in and the boy looked up at his mother and asked "Now that the nurse is here, is the doctor coming soon?". My English teacher said she was absolutely aghast. She had never taught her son that women could not be doctors. Where he picked that up from she hadn't the foggiest idea. She thought she had been raising her son to believe that women were equal to men and could do any job they wanted. But here she was, shocked that despite her best intentions, her son had picked up from somewhere that men are doctors and women are nurses. Too often in our society kids pick up these traditional gender stereotypes and it only hurts our society.

I was listening to "The Agenda" podcast, a TVO show by Steve Paikin (the guy that moderated the English federal leaders debate), and they were discussing wage disparity between women and men. One expert said that the primary reason why women are now the majority in university, more likely to have bachelor degrees than men, but still lag in terms of average salary is because of these traditional gender roles. Women typically don't go into the sciences and end up with a Masters in Art History or a BA in Psychology. For example, English BA's go 68% to women, 32% to men. Average salary = $51,000/year. But Aerospace Engineering, Computer Engineering, Nuclear Engineering, Electrical Engineering are all 82% male. And all have average salaries above $80,000. And this expert on "The Agenda" said that it has nothing to do with women not being able to do the sciences, it's that these traditional gender roles sneak into the lives of both boys and girls and even with the best intentioned parents, the girls get taught that they shouldn't go into the sciences because that is what boys are good at.

I think these parents are going a little too far, but I at least applaud them for trying to limit the outside influences on their child that would restrict them from doing and being what they want. And it's a two way street. If it is a girl that wants to play with trucks and play hockey, that's acceptable. But a boy that wants a tea set is seen as a freak with really bad parents that raised him totally wrong, but it shouldn't be that way.

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

Numbers 1 and 2 I think most people will agree with. Whether or not they are doing harm is up for debate. Whether or not the child will suffer from this experiment is also debatable.

Most likely though, the kid will grow up to be just as messed as the rest of us. Although it (lol) will probably feel like it's (lol) issues are somehow unique, like the rest of us.

I agree... at worst I think these kids will simply be no better off than the rest of us but I think this method of parenting is no less valid than other forms of parenting until proven otherwise.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

The boy likes blue and the girl likes pink. Not because those are their favorite colours, but rather because that is what my brother and sister-in-law raised them to like. Blue vs pink rooms, blue vs pink clothes, etc.. The boy likes toys like dump trucks, Cars(tm), and Mario. The girl likes dolls, Dora and tea sets. Not necessarily because those are what they truly want to play with, but rather because those are the toys that my brother and sister-in-law buy for them. It just boggles my mind how two supposedly progressive parents have raised their children with such traditional gender roles. They are willing to put the boy in hockey, but won't put the girl in because they are afraid she will get hurt. Oi. Boys = tough; girls = fragile and weak.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with gender roles. If the boys like blue and the girls like pink, who cares if it is a result of their upbringing? It is a bloody colour. It doesn't hinder their ability to do anything in the future and I hardly see any injustice being committed here.

I remember my Grade 11 English teacher telling us a story about going to the doctor's office. She was taking her 4 year old boy into a clinic because she couldn't get an appointment with her regular doctor and the boy was quite sick. They went into the room and the female doctor came in and the boy looked up at his mother and asked "Now that the nurse is here, is the doctor coming soon?". My English teacher said she was absolutely aghast. She had never taught her son that women could not be doctors. Where he picked that up from she hadn't the foggiest idea. She thought she had been raising her son to believe that women were equal to men and could do any job they wanted. But here she was, shocked that despite her best intentions, her son had picked up from somewhere that men are doctors and women are nurses. Too often in our society kids pick up these traditional gender stereotypes and it only hurts our society.

LOL

Can you be any more dramatic? What a 4 year old thinks hurts society? 4 year olds are filled with stupid ideas. When I was in kindergarten, I knew a kid that thought black people were made of chocolate. Did he end up becoming a Clansman? No. He grew up and forgot that silly misconception just as everyone else does.

I was listening to "The Agenda" podcast, a TVO show by Steve Paikin (the guy that moderated the English federal leaders debate), and they were discussing wage disparity between women and men. One expert said that the primary reason why women are now the majority in university, more likely to have bachelor degrees than men, but still lag in terms of average salary is because of these traditional gender roles. Women typically don't go into the sciences and end up with a Masters in Art History or a BA in Psychology. For example, English BA's go 68% to women, 32% to men. Average salary = $51,000/year. But Aerospace Engineering, Computer Engineering, Nuclear Engineering, Electrical Engineering are all 82% male. And all have average salaries above $80,000. And this expert on "The Agenda" said that it has nothing to do with women not being able to do the sciences, it's that these traditional gender roles sneak into the lives of both boys and girls and even with the best intentioned parents, the girls get taught that they shouldn't go into the sciences because that is what boys are good at.

More garbage. It couldn't be that most women just aren't interested in those things? Like it or not, there are innate differences between men and women and there always will be. What these parents are going to find is that their kid is going to move towards feminine or masculine roles depending on its gender regardless of what nonsense they promote about the child being sexless.

[transplant99]

men and women are different...why is that a problem to admit?

I dont get the whole idea behind this at all.

[Zevo]

Storm? Most definitely a female.

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I kinda understand where these parents are coming from.

My brother has two kids: 1 boy and 1 girl.

The boy likes blue and the girl likes pink. Not because those are their favorite colours, but rather because that is what my brother and sister-in-law raised them to like. Blue vs pink rooms, blue vs pink clothes, etc.. The boy likes toys like dump trucks, Cars(tm), and Mario. The girl likes dolls, Dora and tea sets. Not necessarily because those are what they truly want to play with, but rather because those are the toys that my brother and sister-in-law buy for them. It just boggles my mind how two supposedly progressive parents have raised their children with such traditional gender roles. They are willing to put the boy in hockey, but won't put the girl in because they are afraid she will get hurt. Oi. Boys = tough; girls = fragile and weak.

Whaaat? The colour thing is what boggles my mind. Kids change their minds all the time. If the boy didn't want to play with trucks, he wouldn't. I have never played with a certain type of toy because I thought I had to. I never chose to like any colour because I had to. That first paragraph is absurd.

What do you recommend? Paint the baby's room beige, with a paint palette around, and have them pick a colour when they're old enough to break free the social norm of baby blue and light pink?