Another condo board issue... bed bugs

[pylon]

So some filthy pig in our building has bed bugs. The company is coming out on Friday to spray their unit. The condo board is insisiting on inspecting all other units in the building, and spraying them if they find evidence.

Firstly, I don't have them in my unit. No bites, no blood on sheets, etc. I am also at the farthest point in the building from the affected unit. I have a few issues though.

They have stated, that any unit not occupied on a weekday, will be locksmithed to be inspected. And the inspection includes rifling through my drawers, looking through my things etc. There was 4 days given for the inspection, and I am working. I have a massive issue, allowing anyone in my place unnattended, with or without the supervision of a neighbours. However, I cannot get out of work Friday, so I have no choice there as they have met the 48 hour notice requirement.

That being said, with or without bedbugs in my unit, I absolutely will not consent to spraying of chemicals in my place, period. My problem is, this company has a blank cheque to spray, and of course they are going to want to spray all units, regardless, to maximaize their profits. Unfortunately, the board is too stupid to realize this.

What recourse do I have? I am planning on leaving a key, I can accept that, but I am planning on also posting a notice on my front door, and on the door in every room in my condo. "The spraying of any chemicals, or any treatments unauthorized by the owner of this unit will result in a lawsuit filed agaimst XXXX spraying company, and the Condo Board of XXXX building."

And I am dead serious, this is not an idle threat.

There is serious health risks with bed bug treatments chemicals, in fact there have been numerous deaths as a result in NY state. I am not prepared to allow a third party, arbitrarily spray carcinogens in my home, and endanger me, an my dogs health.

Anyone with knowledge on this type of matter, thanks in advance.

[4X4]

I object to you calling the guy with bedbugs a filthy pig, as I once had the displeasure of bed bugs getting into my apartment, even though I'm the cleanest neat freak I know. In an apartment or condo building, especially in older ones with radiators that go from unit to unit, those little bastages spread like wildfire.

The key to keeping it under control is exactly what your condo board is doing. The way to let it spread around the building, like herpes in a whorehouse, is for the useless idiot building managers to secretly spray only the affected suite and hope for the best. Because the best wont happen, the worst will. They get behind the baseboards and into the walls and go from suite to suite. Up, down, across the hall. No kidding.

So just be happy that your condo board is protecting your stuff and your peace of mind. Let the exterminator into your suite, and don't worry about the chemical. Those guys have been in thousands of suites before. They don't care about your dildo collection, or whatever it is that you're afraid they'll see.

Seriously, it's probably best if you take Rover to a friend's place, as the spray needs an hour or something to dissapate. If they have to spray it, they have to spray it that day, as they'll be spraying all the other affected suites. It's not effective to not do it all at once.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Those guys have been in thousands of suites before. They don't care about your dildo collection, or whatever it is that you're afraid they'll see.

Not worried about that, Fotze's mom moved out.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by pylon

So some filthy pig in our building has bed bugs. The company is coming out on Friday to spray their unit. The condo board is insisiting on inspecting all other units in the building, and spraying them if they find evidence.

Firstly, I don't have them in my unit. No bites, no blood on sheets, etc. I am also at the farthest point in the building from the affected unit. I have a few issues though.

They have stated, that any unit not occupied on a weekday, will be locksmithed to be inspected. And the inspection includes rifling through my drawers, looking through my things etc. There was 4 days given for the inspection, and I am working. I have a massive issue, allowing anyone in my place unnattended, with or without the supervision of a neighbours. However, I cannot get out of work Friday, so I have no choice there as they have met the 48 hour notice requirement.

That being said, with or without bedbugs in my unit, I absolutely will not consent to spraying of chemicals in my place, period. My problem is, this company has a blank cheque to spray, and of course they are going to want to spray all units, regardless, to maximaize their profits. Unfortunately, the board is too stupid to realize this.

What recourse do I have? I am planning on leaving a key, I can accept that, but I am planning on also posting a notice on my front door, and on the door in every room in my condo. "The spraying of any chemicals, or any treatments unauthorized by the owner of this unit will result in a lawsuit filed agaimst XXXX spraying company, and the Condo Board of XXXX building."

And I am dead serious, this is not an idle threat.

There is serious health risks with bed bug treatments chemicals, in fact there have been numerous deaths as a result in NY state. I am not prepared to allow a third party, arbitrarily spray carcinogens in my home, and endanger me, an my dogs health.

Anyone with knowledge on this type of matter, thanks in advance.

There is a heat treatment alternative for bed bugs if chemicals are not an option. I have no idea how to handle your condo board though.

[Kavvy]

I would be careful with bed bugs, the spread like a virus. I wouldn't blame a condo board for going way to crazy trying to ensure there all dead.

IMO, and its not my stuff they are rifling through, an inspection is hardly an issue, as they spread so easy.

[pylon]

To me it is not that I have anything to hide (except for my collection of rubber fists of course), I am just a very private person, and don't like uninvited guests, touching my stuff.

I just do not like the idea of people spraying toxic fumes, in my home. It would be the last resort for me, as I would look at alternatives first. Perhaps it is the only route, but I would certainly like some input, and adequate time to research alternatives to what is being released in my personal airspace.

This is not like cancer treatment where the risks justify the means. Bedbugs are not lethal, and I am sure there is alternatives to poisons.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by pylon

To me it is not that I have anything to hide (except for my collection of rubber fists of course), I am just a very private person, and don't like uninvited guests, touching my stuff.

I just do not like the idea of people spraying toxic fumes, in my home. It would be the last resort for me, as I would look at alternatives first. Perhaps it is the only route, but I would certainly like some input, and adequate time to research alternatives to what is being released in my personal airspace.

This is not like cancer treatment where the risks justify the means. Bedbugs are not lethal, and I am sure there is alternatives to poisons.

There are alternatives. Heat. Take the whole building to the middle of the Sahara in the middle of summer. It's gotta get up to like 60 or so.

Then there's fire. Fire solves lots of problems, but it also has an unfortunate side affect of indiscriminately burning everything.

Then there's co-existence. Learn to live with disgusting little bugs that hide until you go to sleep. Enjoy having a flashlight on your night table for the next two months so that every time you get the tiniest itch during the night, you'll wake up like someone threw a bucket of water on you, grab the flashlight, and furiously search for the bed bug, until you finally convince yourself that maybe you just had an itch.
Live like that for two months until you want to murder your landlords (or condo board) for being idiots and not taking care of the situation properly, and letting them spread from the second floor allllll the way up to the sixth floor, and then throw out all your furniture and move out of the building, and fight in court over a few thousand dollars.

None of the alternatives are as cost effective as the chemical.

Just so you know, there is lots and lots of info on bedbugs online. In fact, there's even a bedbug registry to alert people of infested buildings with stupid landlords that allow infestations to perpetuate.

[Burninator]

Not an expert by any means, but I believe the alternatives are heat and cold. You can put your stuff in a dryer for long enough to kill them, same with the freezer. Of course since you can't put most of the stuff you own (like the mattress) in the freezer or dryer it's not effective as you have to kill them all. They spread very easily so if you don't completely stop the invasion they will keep spreading.

Personally I think bugs living in my bed feeding off of me is a bigger invasion of my privacy than some random person spraying chemicals in my place for an hour is.

[killer_carlson]

1) bed bugs are affecting both low, low end and high, high end condominiums, hotels and apartments.

2) it is virtually impossible, according to experts through our office, to determine the source of the bed bugs.

3) The heat treatment is the alternative, but it is also being blamed for a high profile burning down of a condominium in edmonton about a month ago. People were hurt. The chemical treatment - and a second one 3 weeks later - is going to be the norm because of the fire.

4) many good property managers/boards are putting a pest removal line in their budget because of bed bugs, roaches, and mice. They are smart to do so.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by 4X4

There are alternatives. Heat. Take the whole building to the middle of the Sahara in the middle of summer. It's gotta get up to like 60 or so.

Then there's fire. Fire solves lots of problems, but it also has an unfortunate side affect of indiscriminately burning everything.

You my friend have just won the internet, congratulations.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Then there's fire. Fire solves lots of problems, but it also has an unfortunate side affect of indiscriminately burning everything.

If you attended the last AGM and saw our reserve fund... that might be a sensible option at this point.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by pylon

If you attended the last AGM and saw our reserve fund... that might be a sensible option at this point.

Not to 100% derail your thread, but may I ask, new or old condo? Do new condo's take a fee from each buyer to store some sort of reserve fund?

[THE SCUD]

Originally Posted by Kavy

Not to 100% derail your thread, but may I ask, new or old condo? Do new condo's take a fee from each buyer to store some sort of reserve fund?

All condo's do - new or old.

Except terribly managed ones.

It's part of your monthly condo fees.

[THE SCUD]

If you don't have a reserve fund

1) Run like ######

2) Enjoy a huge special assessment for any capital / large maintenance expenditure or problem.

[slcrocket]

I work in pest control and have for years. I echo the sentiment that there is no obvious correlation between sanitary living conditions and bed bug populations. There is higher likelihood of bedbug issues in areas where people are generally dirty and given to clutter, but I have seen immaculate residences with significant bed bug problems.

The first thing I would do is inquire as to who your board is using for pest control. Research the company. Bed bug treatment is not randomly spraying pesticides everywhere...it's a difficult thing to treat for because the bugs are so damned reclusive. An effective inspection can be invasive, but it is SO much better than treatment, which can result in you having multiple bags of belongings bagged up/treated and what looks like a tornado having gone through your room(s).

A quality bed bug treatment takes TIME. This is not like treating for roaches or ants or something where you just go in, strategically place bait, and spray surface areas. In most cases (at least with our company), inspection has to take place first and treatment (if necessary) wouldn't happen until later, because it takes a lot of time/manpower to do a treatment and they can't realistically allot that kind of time upfront without knowing the condition of the units.

You don't want these guys - trust me. Very few providers will guarantee their work, and it's with good reason - a realistic expectation that they are all gone after one treatment is not assured. But honestly, the bed bug problem has really done a lot to divide the good pest control companies from the bad. Those that just walk in and spray everything and walk out also happen to be the bottom-line cheapest - and this is one of those situations where you get what you pay for. See what options might exist for thermal treatment (if treatment is indeed necessary) - depending on the unit, the only problem with thermal treatments is keeping the temperature constant for several hours (120 degrees F or ~49 C is the goal mark). See if they have bed bug detecting dogs - they're a relatively new procedure and have been really effective, in my experience.

Research the company. If you don't like what you find, you may not be able to fix things immediately - but talk to your board and explain why a garbage pest control company is in no one's interest.

Good luck.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by THE SCUD

All condo's do - new or old.

Except terribly managed ones.

It's part of your monthly condo fees.

In the last year we have had to:

Re do the roof - 110,000
Flooding - 30,000
Post tension work - 25,000
And now this bed bug thing.

For a 26 unit building that is a lot of cash.

My advice would be avoid smaller buildings. I wouldn't look at any complec smaller than 100 units ever again. A roof on a 100 unit buidling doesn't cost 4 times what it does on a 26 unit one, maybe double. So you end up having to fork out for a bigger chunk, plus you have higher condo fees as a result.

I didn't mean to slight the owner who had the initial infestation. I know you could drag these things back from a cruise, Vegas.... wherever. It is just a huge inconvenience on such short notice, and I am po'd about it.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by pylon

In the last year we have had to:

Re do the roof - 110,000
Flooding - 30,000
Post tension work - 25,000
And now this bed bug thing.

For a 26 unit building that is a lot of cash.

My advice would be avoid smaller buildings. I wouldn't look at any complec smaller than 100 units ever again. A roof on a 100 unit buidling doesn't cost 4 times what it does on a 26 unit one, maybe double. So you end up having to fork out for a bigger chunk, plus you have higher condo fees as a result.

I didn't mean to slight the owner who had the initial infestation. I know you could drag these things back from a cruise, Vegas.... wherever. It is just a huge inconvenience on such short notice, and I am po'd about it.

That's only like $6350/unit. Honestly, that not that much for maintaining a property. I realize there are condo fees on top of that, but I read recently you can count on spending about 10% of the value of your place/year to keep it maintained and appropriately upgraded with time. My experience has been this is about accurate. Owning a house and maintaining it properly is so expensive (new homes you get a maintenance holiday, but that's temporary).

[THE SCUD]

Originally Posted by Sliver

That's only like $6350/unit. Honestly, that not that much for maintaining a property. I realize there are condo fees on top of that, but I read recently you can count on spending about 10% of the value of your place/year to keep it maintained and appropriately upgraded with time. My experience has been this is about accurate. Owning a house and maintaining it properly is so expensive (new homes you get a maintenance holiday, but that's temporary).

I think you added a 0 to that percentage. For example, if you owned a $750K home, you're telling me I will be spending $75,000 a YEAR maintaining and upgrading it (ie saving for windows, roof, etc) it? No chance in hell. $7,500 I might buy.

Windows last 15-20 years on a new house, a roof 20 years. Otherwise you've got paint and the odd repair.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by THE SCUD

I think you added a 0 to that percentage. For example, if you owned a $750K home, you're telling me I will be spending $75,000 a YEAR maintaining and upgrading it (ie saving for windows, roof, etc) it? No chance in hell. $7,500 I might buy.

Windows last 15-20 years on a new house, a roof 20 years. Otherwise you've got paint and the odd repair.

Yeah you're right, 10% is too high. I'm at about 5% a year now that I look at it. I have an itemized list of everything I've done to my house in the past two years and it's really bang on 5%. When I first looked at my list before posting I saw it at about 10% but didn't divide that by the two years I've been tracking.

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Just to throw fuel on the fire.

http://www.globalmontreal.com/health...224/story.html

If it were me, I would rather have the bedbug problem dealt with.