Immigrants costing taxpayers $16 to $23 Billion annually.

[Rerun]

Immigrants who arrived in Canada between 1987 and 2004 received about $6,000 more in government services per immigrant in 2005 than they paid in taxes, confirms a new report released today by the Fraser Institute, Canada's leading public policy think-tank.
"Immigrants arriving in Canada since 1987 are not doing as well economically as immigrants who arrived before 1987," said Herbert Grubel, Fraser Institute senior fellow and co-author of Fiscal Transfers to Immigrants in Canada: Responding to Critics and a Revised Estimate.
"As a result of Canada's welfare-state policies, our progressive income taxes, and universal social programs, these immigrants impose a huge fiscal burden on Canadian taxpayers of between $16 billion and $23 billion annually."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fra...lly-2012-03-15

Its obvious that Canada needs to completely re-think its immigration policy.

[3 Justin 3]

Insert racist post here.

[Hack&Lube]

Flawed study that doesn't examine the economic impact of immigrants in our work force to do the jobs that other people won't do at the wages that are attractive to companies in Canada. So yes they do receive more government benefits (because of lower wages) and yes they usually work in lower paying jobs (therefore pay fewer taxes) because Canada is still poor at recognizing international accreditation but our overall economy and wealth would likely be much worse off without them and the net effect is probably positive.

Canada has an immigration policy like this because of our low population and low birthrate. The immigration policy is necessary to keep our economy working and keep businesses going.

[Barnet Flame]

Not only that, but...

[GGG]

It appears that the study included refugee claims in there immigration numbers. That alone skews the numbers toward more social program need.

The bottom line is that for our economy to grow we need population growth so and our current population doesn't have enough kids to even replace themselves therefore immigration is required.

The study also ignores the children of immigrants who at least sterotypically seem to out perfrom the comparable non-immigrant. So those are benefits that take 20 years to show up.

The biggest error overall might me that the average Canadian recieves more in benefits than we pay in taxes. That is a given because Canada has other revenue sorces than personal taxation. Corporate Taxes, Resource Revenues, Crown profits etc. So unless you find out how much less in taxes that the average canadian pays than recieves this study is kind of useless.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Rerun

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fra...lly-2012-03-15

Its obvious that Canada needs to completely re-think its immigration policy.

I would think the information does not include the economic impact of the future generations of immigrants, usually "Canadianized" and full and beneficial participants in our Society.

I would also submit that there are many white folks in this country, the product of multiple generations, who we might be better off exporting to the third world to get them off the dole.

Like my uncle.

If this is about just-arrived first generation immigrants, then I can see the basis of a reasonable conversation . . . . . but that in itself wouldn't be reasonable. Its the second, third and fourth generation where the profit is.

Cowperson

[MrMastodonFarm]

All these immigrants and Traditional_Ale sits without his Filipina.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

All these immigrants and Traditional_Ale sits without his Filipina.

I gave him the name of a reputable Russian that will take care of this...

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Flawed study that doesn't examine the economic impact of immigrants in our work force to do the jobs that other people won't do at the wages that are attractive to companies in Canada. So yes they do receive more government benefits (because of lower wages) and yes they usually work in lower paying jobs (therefore pay fewer taxes) because Canada is still poor at recognizing international accreditation but our overall economy and wealth would likely be much worse off without them and the net effect is probably positive.

I think that Canada is getting a bad rep for recognizing foreign professional accreditation. It takes years for an immigrant to be granted entry into Canada. Once their application is submitted they should apply for foreign recognition. It is a long process but a lot of that is due to the difficulty of verifying records from a lot of countries/universities. To give someone credit for their education you need to determine the level of education they received which means finding the course syllabus and having a translator go through it to compare it to a Canadian syllabus. An engineering degree can mean quite different things in different countries and between different universities within a country. Many institutions have no syllabus available so it comes down to talking with professors to determine what is actually covered in class. Once you have approved the course itself you need to verify that an applicant actually attended and graduated. In Canada this whole process takes a few days, you send a request to your institution and ask them to mail a certified copy of your transcripts to the professional association. In many countries there are no digital records and some have only spotty paper records.
With education done you need to start on work experience, what have they been doing and what standards were they following. From there they need to obtain some local experience or knowledge to learn the local laws and standards before being welcomed into the profession.

Everything except the local experience can be obtained from abroad and should be complete before the immigrant sets foot in the country. This can be a frustrating process but a local employer is far more likely to hire someone who is already well on their way to obtaining their designation.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

Not only that, but...

Took 'er jerb!

[troutman]

Ah, The Fraser Institute. Ezra L., Rob A., and Danielle S. used to work at the Fraser Institute.

The Fraser Institute's school of spin
http://rabble.ca/books/reviews/2010/...spiracy-theory

[Table 5]

How much do the lazy home-grown Canadian portion of society cost taxpayers?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Flawed study that doesn't examine the economic impact of immigrants in our work force to do the jobs that other people won't do at the wages that are attractive to companies in Canada. So yes they do receive more government benefits (because of lower wages) and yes they usually work in lower paying jobs (therefore pay fewer taxes) because Canada is still poor at recognizing international accreditation but our overall economy and wealth would likely be much worse off without them and the net effect is probably positive.

Canada has an immigration policy like this because of our low population and low birthrate. The immigration policy is necessary to keep our economy working and keep businesses going.

This.

I worked in a meat packing plant for 15 years and the number of engineers and other professionally trained people who worked beside me because their degrees were not recognized was astonishing.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Table 5

How much do the lazy home-grown Canadian portion of society cost taxpayers?

Natives? Quite a bit more I would think.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Table 5

How much do the lazy home-grown Canadian portion of society cost taxpayers?

Yes, but we were born here, which means we have the RIGHT to be lazy and mooch of the rest of the country.

Either way, all I care about is that if immigrants move to Canada, that we have a process setup for them to find a job and start contributing to society as soon as possible.

[handgroen]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

Insert racist post here.

nothing to contribute to the discussion from me,
but i would like to say that when i view this post by 3justin3 it looks like the flames team and sutter are going nuts after his sassy burn

[Rerun]

Our current immigration system doesn't work. We give preference to "professionals" and those "professionals" end up working as cabbies and janitors because they cannot get Canadian accreditation for their education.

.. and then once you arrive he you are allowed to bring over your immediate family, not matter what their skills are, under the family re-unification policy....

And they all get to go on welfare til they get a job, they get taught english as a second language, and all the other perks Canada offer our recent immigrants.

I think we need to re-think who we allow to immigrate as the current point system is obviously not working.

My grandfather was a German immigrant who emigrated from Russia. He came over here as a farmer and homesteaded in Saskatchewan in the early 1900's. Back then Canada needed farmers and he stepped up to the line. He didn't get any government hand-outs and he learned English on his own. He raised 8 children and they all become productive Canadian citizens and some of his grandchildren have gone on to become doctors, lawyers, and engineers.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Our current immigration system doesn't work. We give preference to "professionals" and those "professionals" end up working as cabbies and janitors because they cannot get Canadian accreditation for their education.

.. and then once you arrive he you are allowed to bring over your immediate family, not matter what their skills are, under the family re-unification policy....

And they all get to go on welfare til they get a job, they get taught english as a second language, and all the other perks Canada offer our recent immigrants.

I think we need to re-think who we allow to immigrate as the current point system is obviously not working.

My grandfather was a German immigrant who emigrated from Russia. He came over here as a farmer and homesteaded in Saskatchewan in the early 1900's. Back then Canada needed farmers and he stepped up to the line. He didn't get any government hand-outs and he learned English on his own. He raised 8 children and they all become productive Canadian citizens and some of his grandchildren have gone on to become doctors, lawyers, and engineers.

I think we can afford to help immigrants to a point, but I agree that we should have a system in place where 'professionals' can practice their true profession here in Canada. Especially now where we will have a labor shortage in the coming years.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Our current immigration system doesn't work. We give preference to "professionals" and those "professionals" end up working as cabbies and janitors because they cannot get Canadian accreditation for their education.

.. and then once you arrive he you are allowed to bring over your immediate family, not matter what their skills are, under the family re-unification policy....

And they all get to go on welfare til they get a job, they get taught english as a second language, and all the other perks Canada offer our recent immigrants.

I think we need to re-think who we allow to immigrate as the current point system is obviously not working.

My grandfather was a German immigrant who emigrated from Russia. He came over here as a farmer and homesteaded in Saskatchewan in the early 1900's. Back then Canada needed farmers and he stepped up to the line. He didn't get any government hand-outs and he learned English on his own. He raised 8 children and they all become productive Canadian citizens and some of his grandchildren have gone on to become doctors, lawyers, and engineers.

And what's to say that the immigrants coming over here now won't be telling the same story in 40 years minus the farming part? Canada doesn't have a need for farmers anymore, but it does have a need for other things.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Rathji

This.

I worked in a meat packing plant for 15 years and the number of engineers and other professionally trained people who worked beside me because their degrees were not recognized was astonishing.

I am curious how many of them worked with APEGGA to have their accreditation approved. It is an onerous process but APEGGA has exams you can write to validate your knowledge if you can't prove the validity of your education.
I am not sure what everyone else thinks should happen but I don't think we should hand out a permit to practice based on the anecdotal evidence of I used to be an engineer/doctor in my home country. In Canada the term Engineer implies a certain level of education, training and responsibility and I think it is important to maintain that. The same goes with doctors, lawyers, land surveyors and other professions.
Heck, if someone came over who used to be a police officer in their home country does anyone think we should give them a gun and a badge without any testing or training to make sure they know the Canadian laws and procedures.