I was trying to look for Naheed Nenshi's speech that he presented at the Canadian Club in Toronto but stumbled across this interview/improptu debate.
Al Jazeera interviewed Nenshi and an activist Tarek Fatah to initially discuss the implications and meaning of Nenshi's election in regards to Canadian multiculturalism. Interesting, the two were rather polarized in their perspectives and it ended up being an impromptu debate where both were quite fired up (2nd video particularly).
I have to admit, I didn't except such a candid response from Nenshi and how he was willing to just call Fatah out. Definitely made for some interesting discussion. What are some people's thoughts?
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
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I think both men make good points and both want the same aims. It is true that Canada has moved on from the debates that are still raging elsewhere, particularly here in the UK. It is also equally true that all cultures are not equal and we really cannot show tolerance or respect to cultures built on foundatitions of subjugating others for whatever reason be it race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.
I think both men make good points and both want the same aims. It is true that Canada has moved on from the debates that are still raging elsewhere, particularly here in the UK. It is also equally true that all cultures are not equal and we really cannot show tolerance or respect to cultures built on foundatitions of subjugating others for whatever reason be it race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.
The irony here, as I see it anyways, is that multiculturalism is so much more successful in Canada than in European countries because the indigenous population has been pretty well subjugated.
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The irony here, as I see it anyways, is that multiculturalism is so much more successful in Canada than in European countries because the indigenous population has been pretty well subjugated.
Exactly, all the whiteys will be gone from Europe in a generation.
Nenshi didn't get elected due to the success of multiculturalism. He was elected because he the best candidate as Mr. Fatah said.
The problem with Multiculturalism is not the arrival of immigrants, which it has nothing to do with. Immigants will, with few exceptions, tend to hold on to their ways and embrace a few Canadian values. The problem is when the second and third generations have contempt for Canada. They are encouraged (and thanks to the HRCs rewarded!) to hold values that are complete at odds with our own. Multiculturalism is the acceptance of ANY other values as equal to our own and the encouragement for people to hold those values. If we don't have the backbone to defend our values then we deserve contempt.
People don't come together as a community because they tolerate each others' differences. They come together because of shared goals, challenges or values.
What are these "values" that are completely at odds with our own? When asked this in the last thread, those values turned out to be "don't pick your nose" and "shovel your driveway".
How many people truly believe that third generation immigrants hate Canada?
I just got through listening to TVO's "The Agenda" multiculturalism week shows. They invited immigrants from various walks of life and NONE showed any contempt for their adopted country. Many had issues that they say need addressing (ie better english training - ability to speak english was the PRIMARY driver of immigrant economic success in Canada), but none spoke of Canada with distain.
Now, if we are talking about immigrants bringing in intolerance due to religion, then that's an argument against religion, not against immigration. There is a lot of intolerance built into almost all religions and THAT is what should be railed against.
When I was growing up in the 70's immigrants of different ethnicities would make an effort to fit in. "When in Rome, do as the Romans"
Today more effort is made to bring the old country and it's traditions to Canada.
After WWII Canada had immigrants coming from all over Europe speaking many different languages, they all learned English ASAP learned to fit in and soon loved Canada.
That doesn't happen anymore, why ? In my opinion multiculturalism is actually causing problems. When in Rome...
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what are these "values" that are completely at odds with our own? when asked this in the last thread, those values turned out to be "don't pick your nose" and "shovel your driveway".
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What are these "values" that are completely at odds with our own? When asked this in the last thread, those values turned out to be "don't pick your nose" and "shovel your driveway".
Excuse me? Prove that! Or edit your post! Or are you saying this is what OTHERS have said?
Quote:
How many people truly believe that third generation immigrants hate Canada?
As well don't put words into my mouth. I never said any such thing as YOU ARE SUGGESTING!
Uh, can somebody explain to me the difference between "hate Canada" and "have contempt for Canada"? Because apparently they are not even close.
As for the driveway and nosepicking, those are what OTHERS said in the other thread when asked about non-Canadian values immigrants are bringing. The world doesn't centre around HOZ.
Brands....what to make of them? Ive seen the "Melting Pot" of the USA up close and personal and obviously live the Canadian "Multiculturalism" dream.
My Grandparents came from the Ukraine and worked their rears off to assimilate with Canadians many years ago. They kept their heritage and their language, but when outside they were as Canadian<?> as you could get. I think they would have been considered a part of "The Pot".
My co-workers in the US who have obviously emigrated from other countries remind me very much of my Grandparents, they still hold their values strong, they practice their culture or hold parts of it strong, but definitely act American...much more so than what you see here in Canada. <Yes Im aware there are pockets in the US that have not melted>. I personally dont care what people do or say unless it affects me directly. I love the various foods and cultures brought from overseas, however, If I need service from someone I expect to be able to converse "clearly" in English or French and get what I need and move on. I think that line is slowly being crossed in Canada where "multiculturalism" takes precedence over anything or everything else.
Has anyone tried making a service call to Bell Canada lately?
Last edited by Cheese; 02-26-2011 at 08:45 AM.
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When I was growing up in the 70's immigrants of different ethnicities would make an effort to fit in. "When in Rome, do as the Romans"
Today more effort is made to bring the old country and it's traditions to Canada.
After WWII Canada had immigrants coming from all over Europe speaking many different languages, they all learned English ASAP learned to fit in and soon loved Canada.
That doesn't happen anymore, why ? In my opinion multiculturalism is actually causing problems. When in Rome...
From what I see the first generation immigrants who are not born here tend not to integrate but their children who learn english as a child usually seem to integrate quite well.
The keys to integration are to ensure english language instruction is never compromised in schools and ensure that the basic Human rights are of all people are not allowed to be violated in the name of culture.
Overall we do a pretty good job of it but we could get rid of the HRC or place greater burdens of proof on complainants to the HRC and that would improve the system.
Nenshi is right though although some racisim still exists generally people have moved on from the us vs them. They are stealing our jobs notion that you see in Europe and the US.
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Nenshi didn't get elected due to the success of multiculturalism. He was elected because he the best candidate as Mr. Fatah said.
The problem with Multiculturalism is not the arrival of immigrants, which it has nothing to do with. Immigants will, with few exceptions, tend to hold on to their ways and embrace a few Canadian values. The problem is when the second and third generations have contempt for Canada. They are encouraged (and thanks to the HRCs rewarded!) to hold values that are complete at odds with our own. Multiculturalism is the acceptance of ANY other values as equal to our own and the encouragement for people to hold those values. If we don't have the backbone to defend our values then we deserve contempt.
People don't come together as a community because they tolerate each others' differences. They come together because of shared goals, challenges or values.
But for every 2nd or 3rd generation person who hates Canada, there is an equal amount that are totally Canadian. Can't even speak their mother tongue.
"Whitewashed" is the common term.
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Nenshi didn't get elected due to the success of multiculturalism. He was elected because he the best candidate as Mr. Fatah said.
The problem with Multiculturalism is not the arrival of immigrants, which it has nothing to do with. Immigants will, with few exceptions, tend to hold on to their ways and embrace a few Canadian values. The problem is when the second and third generations have contempt for Canada. They are encouraged (and thanks to the HRCs rewarded!) to hold values that are complete at odds with our own. Multiculturalism is the acceptance of ANY other values as equal to our own and the encouragement for people to hold those values. If we don't have the backbone to defend our values then we deserve contempt.
People don't come together as a community because they tolerate each others' differences. They come together because of shared goals, challenges or values.
Um, sorry but what? I'm a second generation Chinese Canadian, and I was never encouraged to hate Canada. In fact, my parents tell me how lucky we are to be in Canada where we have universal health care and people here are friendly and actually help you when you get stranded on the road. Sure, they complain about the high tax rates in Canada, or how Calgary is so cold. But I mean, normal Canadians do that too, so what's the difference? They reminisce about things from their old country that they miss, and cheer for China to do well on the world stage and in the Olympics, but so what? That is vastly different than holding "contempt" for Canadian culture.
I'm proud to be Chinese and Canadian at the same time. I don't see any problem in that.
This is honestly the first time I've ever heard this argument about how we second gen guys are supposed to hate Canada, and I couldn't disagree more. TBH, I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about.
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Nenshi didn't get elected due to the success of multiculturalism. He was elected because he the best candidate as Mr. Fatah said.
The problem with Multiculturalism is not the arrival of immigrants, which it has nothing to do with. Immigants will, with few exceptions, tend to hold on to their ways and embrace a few Canadian values. The problem is when the second and third generations have contempt for Canada. They are encouraged (and thanks to the HRCs rewarded!) to hold values that are complete at odds with our own. Multiculturalism is the acceptance of ANY other values as equal to our own and the encouragement for people to hold those values. If we don't have the backbone to defend our values then we deserve contempt.
People don't come together as a community because they tolerate each others' differences. They come together because of shared goals, challenges or values.
I think you are totally out to lunch here.
In fact, I cannot think of a single solitary instance where I have observed anything even close to what you are saying, and I grew up in Forest Lawn and have worked most of my life with a large majority of my coworkers being first or second gen Canadians.
People who grow up in Canada are extremely Canadianized by our media, our school system and their friends, simply because they have never known anything else. People who move here, need to learn a new language, new ways of doing things and even re-educate in order to have a 'good' job. Often they just socialize within thier own community of other first gen immmigrants and this is why you have people who have lived here for 10 years and still don't speak English much.
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Mulitculturalism in Canada: success or failure?
