Referee Discussion (general official thread)

[Harry Lime]

I was going to do a necro-bump, but couldn't find a dedicated thread to discuss the state of refereeing in the NHL. Thoughts, solutions, griping, repeat offenders, considerations of Wideman Conspiracies and anything of this like, can go in here.

The reason to start a thread, for me, was that this sort of thing usually ends up in a game thread, and then problems with certain refs or trends in the way penalties are being called, get swept away at the beginning of the next game and the next wave of threads.

I would like to start off with a solution :

There are many strong skaters, who have lived the game of hockey since they were kids, who don't have what it takes to make it in the NHL. I think that there should be an incentive program for journeyman players at the AHL level, or other qualified individuals, to enter into refereeing.

According to estimates, NHL referees earn between $165,000 and $360,000 per year, while linesmen make $110,000 to $235,000. While that's a good chunk of change, NHL officials still make way less than the players they oversee. Aug 17, 2018

I would suggest that a full time NHL ref should make the same amount as the league minimum salary for the league that they are reffing. Entice people to enter this profession. It's nonsensical to me that the league would not invest in this part of the game.

Also, create a yearly review in which a referee has to maintain a certain standard of operation, or can be regulated in favor of a ref at a lower level of competition. The lifespan of an official should be about the same as a player, with the exception of the truly exceptional.

[shogged]

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showth...=173187&page=6


or



https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?p=7090066


are the recent ones I remember lol

[TheSquatch]

I started a thread called "How to fix NHL referreeing" or something like that last year and was told there wasn't a problem by what I considered to be a surprising number of people.

I think the biggest problem is that referees are, as far as any of us can tell, not held accountable in any meaningful way for things like consistency, or bad calls, or poor handling of situations.

Remember Ovechkin's "non goal" in the shootout last season? He knew it was an awarded goal because the goaltender cannot throw his stick (the wording of the rule is actually even clearer). But the refs wouldn't hear of it until home office phoned and said "Uh, yeah, guys, that's a goal, the game's over." Bad look, but really the issue is that the refs involved had a big huddle and STILL botched the call.

So training is part of it, dedicated professional refs and ref schools, year round.

Another part of it is getting a replay system that makes sense, coach's challenges which make sense, and again, making sure that the game is called reasonably fairly and reasonably consistently. Anyone who thinks that game-management isn't a real thing is watching something else than I am. I can't believe the things that get called vs the things that don't (and I'm not suggesting this favors the Flames or any other team, I have a suspicion it favors the home team somewhat).

Anothernother part of it would be if the NHL would come out and say "Yeah, we blew this." or if the referees would have to explain why they didn't call a hook on a scoring chance after a game, I think it would go a long way to making things more consistent. It would have the disadvantage of then there would be about 280 penalties every game - you probably don't WANT them to call EVERYthing.

I think the officiating in the last two years has been pretty bad, egregiously bad in many cases - the 5 minute major for the weird Pavelski incident, that kind of thing. There has to be a way to remedy this in nearly real time.

[Mickey76]

I am doubtful that paying more gets a better referee. There are a few horrible calls but honestly I don’t think the reffing is all that bad. I find when I watch a game I have absolutely no stake in but enjoy the good hockey (Washington-Pittsburgh) I really hardly notice the reffing at all.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I would like to start off with a solution :



There are many strong skaters, who have lived the game of hockey since they were kids, who don't have what it takes to make it in the NHL. I think that there should be an incentive program for journeyman players at the AHL level, or other qualified individuals, to enter into refereeing.

This has been a thing for at least 10 years.

[heep223]

I honestly have no idea what a penalty is anymore. Slashing, holding, interference...I see the same play get called and then not get called, over and over, often in the same game.

It’s horrific. Likely it mostly washes out for any given team over a season, but man, it’s frustrating to watch game by game.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

This has been a thing for at least 10 years.

What they are using as an incentive isn't much of an incentive. When you are in an industry where the average employee (at that level) is a millionaire, you need something better than free spay and neutering for your pets, at the local humane society.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by shogged

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showth...=173187&page=6

or

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?p=7090066

are the recent ones I remember lol

lol, i didn't use the word 'officiating' in my search. Fair enough.

[You Need a Thneed]

Missed the opportunity to call this the Official official thread.

[Yamer]

Unpopular Opinion: The officiating in the league is the best it can be, given technological and policy constraints.

The game has evolved beyond the capacity of on-ice officials. It is so fast, and the rule book is so vague and interpretive, that the on-ice officials are at a tremendous disadvantage. Given the privilege of multiple angles in slow motion these professionals are likely to call it the same as fans on any new media platform. They're trying to be objective despite what everyone may think.

It's a tough job that is only getting more difficult every year, and the policies and procedures are not keeping pace. They are not incompetent. They are working within human and bureaucratic limitations and advancement.

Consistency and game management are my key complaints, but the former is understandable, considering, while the latter sure needs some deeper attention paid.

I do not envy the job of an NHL official.

[Dajazz]

The level is a joke. It’s like many of them are trying to be the star themselves, or trying to manage the game themselves.

I’m surprised every time I get the opportunity to watch a NHL how blatantly obvious they are. Best players in the world, mediocre refs. Not a good mix.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

The refs are the best in the world at what they do. Same as the players.

I think the challenges are two-fold.

The letter of the rules would mean a call almost every play. The commentary ‘they will call that every time’ is never actually true. So deciding what is and isn’t a call is sooo subjective.

They are human, as are fans. So they make actual mistakes and fans think way more things are mistakes. My impression is fans grew way less tolerant as the standard got more chintzy. Maybe the league did too. You see it in replay. A fraction of an inch in real time speed is assumed to be something that can and should be ‘right’. We may be better off accepting a higher tolerance.

And my view of all this changes based on how the last flames game went.

[dissentowner]

The biggest issue I have with the officials is game management. We know it happens but I suspect this is the way officials are instructed to call games by the league itself. That in turn leads to inconsistentcy.

[Jiggy]

The game is extremely fast. And just cause we see a penalty on TV doesn't mean the refs on the ice seen it. Every league has reffing issues. It is what it is.

[Monahammer]

Refs are a cancer that should be excised from the league. Replaced with technology. It is possible the NHL just lacks the will to make the change.

[bubbsy]

There really ought to be a site that tracks missed/wrong calls by game and the ref crew.

Nothing helps drive improvement like some raw numbers and some public visibility.

Given the how annoyed every nhl fan base seems to be with officiating, perhaps there's potential site traffic to make it a viable thing.

[GGG]

I think having something similar to the NBA last two minute report would be very good for communicating what the NHL head office thinks is and isn’t a penalty. So the last 5 minutes of a game the NHL should issue a report on all the correct and incorrect calls and correct and incorrect non-calls.

This does two important things: it shows the public what is and isn’t a penalty and it shows the nhl is reviewing and holding officials accountable.

I think one question that needs to be answered is are we sure we want the same penalty standard all the time? The number of 5 on 3s will dramatically increase as will penalties in the last two minutes of a game.

[fastpuck]

On the US side, there is a very strong line of development camps, reffing seminars, assessments all needed to move up. Most refs I know including myself have spent years playing as well as continually working with skating coaches, taking required exams etc. If you think you can just throw on a stripe and ref your crazy and try it, you might be surprised. 'Some people ' here, think that it is easy. It is a huge amount of dedication and slogging through lower levels to get to the point of being a pro or international ref. The arm chair critics watch the replays over and over to use to bitch. It is much different making a split second determination on the ice level in an extremely fast paced game. You can only call what you see. Yes I think consistency can and should be improved, and Ref's do make mistakes. But every error is scrutinized. How many mistakes does Brodie or Kylington make in a game?
In addition they have put up with years of abuse from fans, players and coaches to get to that point. You really think its fun to ref with fans yelling obscenities etc? A young ref gets a ton of abuse, and they have to be really dedicated to ignore that and continue to ref to get to that level of reffing. A certain amount of refs were players at high levels that decided to ref to extend their involvement in the game, chances are like most ref they do it for the love of the game.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think having something similar to the NBA last two minute report would be very good for communicating what the NHL head office thinks is and isn’t a penalty. So the last 5 minutes of a game the NHL should issue a report on all the correct and incorrect calls and correct and incorrect non-calls.

This does two important things: it shows the public what is and isn’t a penalty and it shows the nhl is reviewing and holding officials accountable.

I think one question that needs to be answered is are we sure we want the same penalty standard all the time? The number of 5 on 3s will dramatically increase as will penalties in the last two minutes of a game.

I think a lot of this anger is misplaced. I suspect a lot of how the game is reffed is instructed from the league which comes from Team owners/GM's. I think we see the game management as that is what the teams want. Yah they get mad over individual calls here and there but the overall calling of the game comes from the top.

[The Cobra]

I doubt increasing the salary of refs would entice many more to take up the profession.

I would suggest that most referees are already being paid well more than any other profession they could likely have entered.