Panic/Anxiety Disorders

[FlamesAddiction]

Does anyone here have personal experiences with anxiety or panic disorders?

I've had occasional panic attacks from about the time I was 12. They were very rare and usually only lasted a few minutes. Most people wouldn't even know I was having one because I'd usually get the urge to hide somewhere, so I'd just leave the room.

The last few years I have been getting more and for the past few days I have had acute anxiety symptoms to the point where I haven't eaten and can't concentrate on work. The anxiety is almost non-stop but is broken up by a few minutes here and there where I feel normal. They usually start because some random negative thought crosses my mind and then I OBSESS on it and my brain can't stop moving. I can't recall any particular traumatizing event that might have triggered this, so I think it might be some kind of chemical imbalance. Could therapy be an option if it's chemical?

Anyway, I finally broke down yesterday and went to the clinic and the doctor prescribed me clonazepam which seems to help, but they are only supposed to be used temporarily until something can be diagnosed (and the side-effects look scary). I took one yesterday and it really helped, but I am afraid of getting dependent on drugs. I have also heard that people don't feel happy after taking the stuff for a while.

I'm not really sure what my next step should be. Obviously these are things I should be asking a doctor and not a hockey board, but I guess I was hoping that someone might have some encouraging things to say.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

What you're describing is pretty common, as I understand it. You should see a psychiatrist (i.e. not a GP) so if your doctor didn't refer you, I'd get a referral right away. The reason is that anxiety can be something you get by itself, but it can also be associated with other mood problems (depression or bipolar mood) and would be treated slightly differently in that case.

There are a lot of drugs for anxiety that are more tolerable in the long term than Clonazepam, which is basically a controlled-release benzodiazepine. (ativan is another common one, but it doesn't last as long). Clonazepam actually has a pretty decent side effects profile compared to a lot of psychoactive drugs. It can make you a little drowsy, but that goes away if you are used to it. However, it can be habit-forming over a long period of time. In the short term, I wouldn't worry about it--it will at least last you until you can get in to see a psychiatrist.

The psychiatrist, depending on what else you tell him/her, may prescribe an anti-depressant that has anti-anxiety properties--something like Effexor or Paxil, maybe. Those have some side effects too, but they're relatively easy to tolerate, and won't make you as sleepy as clonazepam will.

But think of it this way: you don't have to live with these symptoms. There are drugs that will help, and you'll probably find that on balance your life is better for it!

[KTown]

Mental toughness, is what I used to beat my panic attacks/anxiety disorder. About 5 years ago I had a really tough 4 months. Where I had what you had. It comes out of nowhere, I talked to someone but that didn't help, I refused to take medication and believe me I had some crazy thoughts. No matter how you feel you are not going crazy.

I am stubborn. How did I beat it?

1) Kept my self busy. Even if I didn't want to go somewhere , I forced myself to go, keeping your routine is huge. Whether it is work, exercise, going out, or wahtever you have to keep doing it. It gets easier with time.
2) Whenever I had thoughts I would immediately start doing something else to get my mind off of it, it was tough but overtime it helps.
3) Staying away from triggers, such as anything with caffeine, caffeine is known to trigger certain brain stimulants that can cuase attacks.
4) Try to stay away from high stress situations. Count to 10 and breathe deeply if you feel like you are getting stressed. Just don't count out loud at work or people will start thinking your nuts.
5) Patience, no matter what anyone says you will not get better overnight, it takes time, sometiems a month sometimes a year, you never know. This was the hardest thing for me to swallow. Just remember one key thing no matter how bad things get they will get better eventually. That was one of my motto's

How do I keep it from returning?

I don't know, just generally staying busy/

[Jordan!]

All I know is that medication isn't the answer to your problems. You'd need to re-train your brain over a long period of time through meditation and physical activity which helps you naturally relax.

You need to be very disciplined, patient and find a certain spirituality about trying to find peace and serenity.

I recommend, "The Art of Happiness" by the Dalai Llamma. It's a great read just to understand life, why you feel the way you do, and how to look at it from the outside looking inward.

The only thing you need to understand right this moment is that, no matter how well you train yourself to be comfortable with having a Anxiety/panic disorder, and how much you can control it. It will always exist in some form, basically you train yourself to react to such flare ups of anxiety to the point you hardly acknowledge it. For me, the panic wouldn't even be the situation that caused the panic, it was me panicking, while resisting my natural fight/flight response.

Somethings to think about.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

All I know is that medication isn't the answer to your problems. You'd need to re-train your brain over a long period of time through meditation and physical activity which helps you naturally relax.

People keep saying this stuff, and I sort of shake my head a little bit. The stigma against using medication to help with mood problems is just goofy.

Cognitive therapy is also good. But the notion that "medication" isn't the answer is just silly. The brain is complicated, and it doesn't always work the way it's supposed to. Psychoactive drugs are common, safe, and helpful in many instances. There are people (I know one personally) who would not be alive if it weren't for medication.

So let's not overgeneralize--this is the internet, and most of us aren't doctors. It's worth seeing a doctor to see if there's medication that will help in the long term. There's no reason not to also "re-train" your brain, but if something helps, I don't know why you wouldn't do it.

[flylock shox]

You might be surprised by the number of people who suffer from anxiety disorders - they're right up there with (and often accompanied by) depressive disorders, which are also extremely common.

Your concerns regarding drugs are valid, particularly since your symptoms appear to be developing into more of a chronic condition than a transient one, and antianxiety medication can be addictive and produce bad side-effects over the long term.

You should consider asking your doctor for a referral to a psychiatrist/psychologist, who could perhaps help you in developing cognitive techniques and lifestyle changes that will improve your condition without reliance upon medication. You can probably start on your own by reducing your intake of psychostimulants (particularly caffeine) and trying simple deep breathing and breath-control exercises, but you should be seeking professional assistance with this condition before it becomes pervasive in your life. Be aware that your GP is not likely to have extensive expertise in anxiety disorders, and his/her first response will almost always be to prescribe medication, which may not be ideal for you in the long term.

Of course, you should take this with a grain of salt: the advice your doctor can give you is likely better than what you'll get from a fellow neurotic on a hockey board.

[transplant99]

There are people (I know one personally) who would not be alive if it weren't for medication

To further this point...

I know someone who is no longer alive because she got the wrong medication, and it ended up in her taking her own life. Had she been on the right stuff, she would still be with us today.

Anti-depressants, as an example, have been a godsend to literally millions of people.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Good post, flylock--I'd add that the psychiatrist and the psychologist may not be the same person--but both may be very helpful in developing solutions to the problem, albeit from different angles. Most psychiatrists lean toward prescribing medication, and you generally need a psychologist for cogntive therapy. I'd try doing both--there's no reason not to, in my view.

[peter12]

I'd say it's worth talking to your GP and getting in to see a psychiatrist. At the most, getting into some cognitive therapy is a good idea. I'm actually in a very similar situation as yourself. I've always been a high intensity person and being in university just sent me over the edge where anxiety attacks became a pretty common occurence.

Work with a doctor on finding the right meds, it can take quite awhile, and find someone to talk to about your anxiety. Also, I've found writing a journal helps and getting plenty of exercise.

As well, get off of the clonazepam and onto a more effective long-term SSRI or SNRI.

[joe_mullen]

Most GPs are able to treat anxiety/panic disorders quite effectively. Also, it takes about a year to get in to see a psychiatrist. SSRIs and SNRIs usually work quite well.

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

What you're describing is pretty common, as I understand it. You should see a psychiatrist (i.e. not a GP) so if your doctor didn't refer you, I'd get a referral right away. The reason is that anxiety can be something you get by itself, but it can also be associated with other mood problems (depression or bipolar mood) and would be treated slightly differently in that case.

There are a lot of drugs for anxiety that are more tolerable in the long term than Clonazepam, which is basically a controlled-release benzodiazepine. (ativan is another common one, but it doesn't last as long). Clonazepam actually has a pretty decent side effects profile compared to a lot of psychoactive drugs. It can make you a little drowsy, but that goes away if you are used to it. However, it can be habit-forming over a long period of time. In the short term, I wouldn't worry about it--it will at least last you until you can get in to see a psychiatrist.

The psychiatrist, depending on what else you tell him/her, may prescribe an anti-depressant that has anti-anxiety properties--something like Effexor or Paxil, maybe. Those have some side effects too, but they're relatively easy to tolerate, and won't make you as sleepy as clonazepam will.

But think of it this way: you don't have to live with these symptoms. There are drugs that will help, and you'll probably find that on balance your life is better for it!

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by joe_mullen

Most GPs are able to treat anxiety/panic disorders quite effectively. Also, it takes about a year to get in to see a psychiatrist. SSRIs and SNRIs usually work quite well.

Fair enough--I think evaluation b a psychiatrist is a good idea, but that's because I am close to someone who has a serious mental illness. The thing is, anxiety can be secondary to depression or bipolar disorder too--it's not always the only symptom, and I think it's good to be evaluated by someone who knows.

Having just moved here and had to get a referral to a psychiatrist for a close family member, I can tell you that it's more like 3 months.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Fair enough--I think evaluation b a psychiatrist is a good idea, but that's because I am close to someone who has a serious mental illness. The thing is, anxiety can be secondary to depression or bipolar disorder too--it's not always the only symptom, and I think it's good to be evaluated by someone who knows.

Having just moved here and had to get a referral to a psychiatrist for a close family member, I can tell you that it's more like 3 months.

If he's got a good GP, I say don't go anywhere else. Psychiatrists are so booked up, I got in for a 10 minute consultation, got a prescription written and wasn't given a follow-up appointment for 6 months! I had to get my GP to intercede because the medication I was given was causing some nasty side affects.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I'd be extremely wary about prescription drugs. Big pharmaceutical has a lot of money to push drugs through the FDA and market these drugs to doctors. The system is somewhat corrupt. Lots of these drugs alleviate certain symptoms while at the same time producing very harmful effects. Atypical anti-psychotics sound particularly scary

Just did a course on Madness and Sanity in society and the history of psychiatry is not pretty at all. Lots of treatments were approved because they made patients more manageable, not because they helped the patients. The names of mental illnesses have changed many times over in the past few hundred years and their supposed "causes" have changed many times as well. Basically we still don't the root causes of many mental illnesses nor how to "cure" them without messing up the brain in other ways.

Drugs would be a last resort IMO. I'd explore counselling and try and exhaust that route first. Some of these prescription drugs have very, very nasty "side-effects" and can be dangerous to go off of after you've been on them for a while.

Trusting psychiatrists blindly less than one hundred years could have resulted in a lobotomy, or sexual sterilization. Electo-shock therapy still goes on today. We really haven't come as far in understanding mental illness as most would think, its a lot of guesswork, and a lot of direct experimentation on people through the use of drug cocktails. Some people are definitely helped by drugs. Some people are made permanently worse.

I'd just be very careful about what you put in your body. Be wary of newer drugs that don't have as many studies done of them. Do your own research. Try counselling first. Thats my advice.

[DOK]

Why not try a psychologist? Talking with a therapist can make a huge help to someone in need. If medication or actual diagnosis is needed, the therapist can direct you that way. You can get in to see any psychologist easily and at a good rate as well. The difference between psychiatrist and psychologist is that the first has a medical degree as well.

I highly recommend a psychologist myself, for a panic / anxiety issue, it's probably more just that than anything.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by KTown

Mental toughness, is what I used to beat my panic attacks/anxiety disorder. About 5 years ago I had a really tough 4 months. Where I had what you had. It comes out of nowhere, I talked to someone but that didn't help, I refused to take medication and believe me I had some crazy thoughts. No matter how you feel you are not going crazy.

I am stubborn. How did I beat it?

1) Kept my self busy. Even if I didn't want to go somewhere , I forced myself to go, keeping your routine is huge. Whether it is work, exercise, going out, or wahtever you have to keep doing it. It gets easier with time.
2) Whenever I had thoughts I would immediately start doing something else to get my mind off of it, it was tough but overtime it helps.
3) Staying away from triggers, such as anything with caffeine, caffeine is known to trigger certain brain stimulants that can cuase attacks.
4) Try to stay away from high stress situations. Count to 10 and breathe deeply if you feel like you are getting stressed. Just don't count out loud at work or people will start thinking your nuts.
5) Patience, no matter what anyone says you will not get better overnight, it takes time, sometiems a month sometimes a year, you never know. This was the hardest thing for me to swallow. Just remember one key thing no matter how bad things get they will get better eventually. That was one of my motto's

How do I keep it from returning?

I don't know, just generally staying busy/

I hope you are doing more than that otherwise months or years down the road you might have a huge crash. Maybe not. It is best to understand what the hell is going on. You don't have to get to the deepest level of everything. But understand what stresses put you over the top. Understand how you can handle more stress. Which is what you are doing. But if that stress goes above what you can handle with your mental toughness then what?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I'd be extremely wary about prescription drugs. Big pharmaceutical has a lot of money to push drugs through the FDA and market these drugs to doctors. The system is somewhat corrupt. Lots of these drugs alleviate certain symptoms while at the same time producing very harmful effects. Atypical anti-psychotics sound particularly scary

Just did a course on Madness and Sanity in society and the history of psychiatry is not pretty at all. Lots of treatments were approved because they made patients more manageable, not because they helped the patients. The names of mental illnesses have changed many times over in the past few hundred years and their supposed "causes" have changed many times as well.

Drugs would be a last resort IMO. I'd explore counselling and try and exhaust that route first. Some of these prescription drugs have very, very nasty "side-effects" and can be dangerous to go off of after you've been on them for a while.

Trusting psychiatrists blindly less than one hundred years could have resulted in a lobotomy, or sexual sterilization. Electo-shock therapy still goes on today. We really haven't come as far in understanding mental illness as most would think, its a lot of guesswork, and a lot of direct experimentation on people through the use of drug cocktails.

I strongly disagree with this post. Today's drugs have to undergo rigourous testing and scrutiny before being approved for medical use. An SSRI, like Lexapro, or an SNRI, like Cymbalta, can give you that extra safeguard to prevent stress or stop an anxiety attack in its tracks. All they do is increase the amounts of chemicals, like seritonin, which are depleted through anxiety attacks.

Side effects can be a bit nasty for the first week or so, insomnia, dry mouth, increased sweating etc..., but they should go and you should be feeling better after 1-2 weeks. If the meds don't work, switch to another type. Everyone's body chemistry is different and the same meds won't work for everyone.

[joe_mullen]

sounds like a fairly biased course. "electro-shock therapy" (aka ECT) is actually an extremely effective treatment for treatment resistant/difficult to treat depression. it has been given a bad name in the media but is actually a great form of treatment. as for medications, why the stigma against them. would your opinion be the same if it was medication for diabetes or hypertension? mental illness is a medical illness just like those others. some can be treated with non-pharmacological measures, some require prescription medications.

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I'd be extremely wary about prescription drugs. Big pharmaceutical has a lot of money to push drugs through the FDA and market these drugs to doctors. The system is somewhat corrupt. Lots of these drugs alleviate certain symptoms while at the same time producing very harmful effects. Atypical anti-psychotics sound particularly scary

Just did a course on Madness and Sanity in society and the history of psychiatry is not pretty at all. Lots of treatments were approved because they made patients more manageable, not because they helped the patients. The names of mental illnesses have changed many times over in the past few hundred years and their supposed "causes" have changed many times as well. Basically we still don't the root causes of many mental illnesses nor how to "cure" them without messing up the brain in other ways.

Drugs would be a last resort IMO. I'd explore counselling and try and exhaust that route first. Some of these prescription drugs have very, very nasty "side-effects" and can be dangerous to go off of after you've been on them for a while.

Trusting psychiatrists blindly less than one hundred years could have resulted in a lobotomy, or sexual sterilization. Electo-shock therapy still goes on today. We really haven't come as far in understanding mental illness as most would think, its a lot of guesswork, and a lot of direct experimentation on people through the use of drug cocktails. Some people are definitely helped by drugs. Some people are made permanently worse.

I'd just be very careful about what you put in your body. Be wary of newer drugs that don't have as many studies done of them. Do your own research. Try counselling first. Thats my advice.

[JustAnotherGuy]

FlamesAddiction,

How much of a discussion did you have with your doctor? He should have discussed how long you are going to be on the meds. Do you have a follow up appointment scheduled? Medications are a very valid way to assist you in coping with what ever you are dealing. While on the meds is the time to try to figure out what is making you have these panic attacks. It may be something simple.

I had issues in my past and got some help and it all seems so simple now.

Also, very important. Now that you have started taking meds do not just stop cold turkey. That is when people have alot of the side affects. Relax.. lol. Cutting back the meds as recommended is fine.

If you want to discuss further you can send me a private message and we can chat.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by peter12

I strongly disagree with this post. Today's drugs have to undergo rigourous testing and scrutiny before being approved for medical use. An SSRI, like Lexapro, or an SNRI, like Cymbalta, can give you that extra safeguard to prevent stress or stop an anxiety attack in its tracks. All they do is increase the amounts of chemicals, like seritonin, which are depleted through anxiety attacks.

Side effects can be a bit nasty for the first week or so, insomnia, dry mouth, increased sweating etc..., but they should go and you should be feeling better after 1-2 weeks. If the meds don't work, switch to another type. Everyone's body chemistry is different and the same meds won't work for everyone.

So if the same meds work differently on different people than how does their rigorous testing ensure they are safe? Lets face it, doctors are allowed to prescribe drugs that really mess you up in other ways. Atypical anti-psychotics now have been acknowledged to cause massive weight gain and increase the risk of diabetes. Is that safe?

Changing the way your brain takes in seratonin or blocks it can have a lifelong impact on the way your brain works. Decades of use can lead to massive change.

All I'm saying is be VERY wary. Mental illness is not like typical body illness issues. They do not understand how many of these diseases or conditions really work. The rigorous testing of these drugs is not as comprehensive as you might think.

Sounds like you are find with experimenting with drug cocktails on yourself. I personally wouldn't be and have seen firsthand from my half-brother who was diagnosed (now they are saying mis-diagnosed) as bi-polar and has been taking lithium and anti-psychotics for years. Now they're saying he was just alcoholic, meanwhile these drugs he's been on have permanently changed his attitude, the way he acts, etc while masking the fact that his alcoholism may have been the sole issue the whole time.

Different psychiatrists can also can different diagnoses, if you don't see that as a troubling issue I'm not sure what to say. Different psychiatrists will also prescribe different drug cocktails. My current roommate said his psychiatrist now switched him off the cocktail that his former doctor prescribed because it was a very dangerous mix of drugs.

New studies come out that highlight "side-effects" of certain drugs that weren't known before. That should be worrying too.

A certain drug in America was marketed to all ages as a great miracle drug then later found to cause serious issues for children and older people. They were successfully sued and they settled out of court for almost a billion dollars I think, which is chump change to big pharmaceutical companies. That should be worrying.

Read some books. I'd recommend Mad in America, that has some pretty worrying stuff in it.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I'd be extremely wary about prescription drugs. Big pharmaceutical has a lot of money to push drugs through the FDA and market these drugs to doctors. The system is somewhat corrupt. Lots of these drugs alleviate certain symptoms while at the same time producing very harmful effects. Atypical anti-psychotics sound particularly scary

Just did a course on Madness and Sanity in society and the history of psychiatry is not pretty at all. Lots of treatments were approved because they made patients more manageable, not because they helped the patients. The names of mental illnesses have changed many times over in the past few hundred years and their supposed "causes" have changed many times as well. Basically we still don't the root causes of many mental illnesses nor how to "cure" them without messing up the brain in other ways.

Drugs would be a last resort IMO. I'd explore counselling and try and exhaust that route first. Some of these prescription drugs have very, very nasty "side-effects" and can be dangerous to go off of after you've been on them for a while.

Trusting psychiatrists blindly less than one hundred years could have resulted in a lobotomy, or sexual sterilization. Electo-shock therapy still goes on today. We really haven't come as far in understanding mental illness as most would think, its a lot of guesswork, and a lot of direct experimentation on people through the use of drug cocktails. Some people are definitely helped by drugs. Some people are made permanently worse.

I'd just be very careful about what you put in your body. Be wary of newer drugs that don't have as many studies done of them. Do your own research. Try counselling first. Thats my advice.

This isn't th nineteenth century. The fact is, trusting doctors (not just psychiatrists) was a dangerous proposition a hundred or so years ago, but without modern medicine we'd live in a different world.

Modern psychiatry has saved the life of a person very close to me--and has allowed her to live a full, productive and high functioning life when fifty years ago the outcomes would have been a lot worse. Do they no everything? No--but they aren't some sinister cabal out to sell drugs and harm people with experimental therapies. They're doctors--their secret agenda is to treat illness.