Home renovations without building permits

[SportsJunky]

I may or may not know a guy who recently developed his basement without pulling any permits from the city. All work was done to code as far as he knows (physically present during most of it). Anyone ever had to contact the city after work was already completed? How tough are the inspectors going to be on this? Ripping apart walls is going to be a baaaad idea at this stage (completed).

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by fotze

The only time I ever got busted for this is when a former owner did the work without permit. But troutman took care of it all, got it waived or something So the moral of the story is "don't pull any permits but use troutman to cover your arse if need be, when you sell".

you are wise

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by fotze

The only time I ever got busted for this is when a former owner did the work without permit. But troutman took care of it all, got it waived or something So the moral of the story is "don't pull any permits but use troutman to cover your arse if need be, when you sell".

So what your saying is that troutman was legally speaking, "quite the catch"?

[REDVAN]

I also "know someone" without a permit, and yet "they" have a finished basement... well, nevermind, "he" didn't quite nail the baseboards all in, so technically it's still under construction.

[4X4]

There are plenty of illegal basement developments in the city and they get bought and sold all the time. Your "friend" would be ill-advised to apply for a permit after the fact. There's no way an electrical or plumbing or HVAC inspection can be done after drywall is on. And if you do find an inspector who will pass something that he can't see, I'll be very surprised. Likely the only way you'll be able to accomplish that would be if the work was done by a reputable company. A company that they're constantly doing inspections for and always passing. Of course, companies like that handle the permits themselves.
If the work was done by some guy, however good he may be, it'll never pass inspection without visual access.

[onetwo_threefour]

Yeah, it's technically doable, but you can't 'always' get it waived. Inspectors will come out and have a look in a couple of outlets and junction boxes,. look at the wiring into the panel and count boxes per circuit etc,. They'll look at the plumbing they can see and look for any unsupported spans, and as long as they don't see anything obviously wrong, they'll usually pass it without any 'penetrative' evaluation. However, they do have the right to require it, and if it looks like a shoddy job on the outside, they're more likely to start pulling stuff apart

@4X4 - Sometimes for selling a property, purchasers insist on permits. In that case the homeowner may not have much choice but to have it inspected after the fact. In my experience, it is possible, but not a certainty for sure.

[4X4]

Really? Learn something new everyday. And to think of all the houses I sold where the buyer asked about the basement development and I told them (in not so many words) to forgetaboutit.
Maybe the inspectors I deal with are more anal, being in new construction. But the only time I've ever passed an inspection that the inspector couldn't actually see the work was when I a) had already schmoozed him and b) had pictures of everything that I knew he'd want to see, before it was covered up.
But now that you say this, I can imagine that the city would probably have some kind of provision for this scenario or else they'd be asking for more trouble instead of getting money in their coffers and legitimately enhancing the safety of the city.

But still, I'd be very, very wary of calling for an inspection after a job is finished. Worst I ever encountered back when I was hawking real estate, were buyers that wanted a few grand knocked off the price so that they could fix anything that "didn't pass inspection". That's in quotations because not-a-one of them ever actually called for an inspection. They just took the money and ran.

[onetwo_threefour]

Yeah, in previous markets, seller's could tell buyers to go sit on an egg. Not so much now. And I agree about price adjustments, 99% of purchasers just want a lower price. I have had a few that have insisted though, so I know it is possible to have an inspection done after the fact, but it's definitely risky as you say.

[ken0042]

When I bought my house in 2004; just prior to the boom- the inspector pointed out to me the basement electrical and the lack of a permit. But it was still just all along the outside walls with no drywall, so both the inspector and my realtor said for me not to worry about mentioning it. Basically the inspector told me the value of the wire in place I would be better off leaving it, but to make sure it was re-done before I did any basement work.

My point being, the OP might want to tell his friend that in an up market it might not make a difference, but in the current down market it could come back to haunt him. It all depends on what the buyer may or may not do.

I would call the city, not from his home line of course, and ask about inspections and permits after the fact.

[DuffMan]

If you do the electrical yourself without a permit and inspection, and the house burns down, your insurance may not pay for anything

[JohnnyFlame]

If the work has been previously begun you are allowed to complete it without a permit. Or so I was told and so with one of my houses the walls in the basement were roughed in as was the bathroom and there was some wiring completed as well. So I just went ahead and finished it off. Had no problem selling in whatsoever--In fact I'm sure that nice finished basement help sell it.

So I wouldn't bother looking to a permit now--Any trouble in the future just say you finished off a previously started job.

[Titan]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

If the work has been previously begun you are allowed to complete it without a permit. Or so I was told and so with one of my houses the walls in the basement were roughed in as was the bathroom and there was some wiring completed as well. So I just went ahead and finished it off. Had no problem selling in whatsoever--In fact I'm sure that nice finished basement help sell it.

So I wouldn't bother looking to a permit now--Any trouble in the future just say you finished off a previously started job.

I would be very careful following this advice. It is along the lines of "well the bank robbery was already in progress so I just finished it off." Not very logical.

I would not pi55 around with this for two reasons: 1. your house can burn down if there is bad wiring, 2. if the City does get wind of it and decide to be strict, your walls are coming down. I don't think either scenario is worth it, but that is just my 2 cents having worked as a lawyer for the City, and having watched Mike Holmes.

[Kjesse]

I have friends who aren't getting along with their neighbour. They developed their basement 2 years ago without a permit.

The neighbour figured out a permit was never issued, and called the City and reported the development a few months ago.

The inspector came by, took a look at the development, and told them they'd have to apply for a permit.

The inspector wanted a diagram of the wiring, as opposed to requiring the drywall to come off. He also looked at their junction box and a few other things to see if anything was obviously wrong.

[Shazam]

Wiring's pretty easy, actually. The shoddy work shown on Holmes on Homes amazes me.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Wiring's pretty easy, actually. The shoddy work shown on Holmes on Homes amazes me.

X2, did a entire basement sans the box myself with just the help of a book, yes, it was inspected.