So obviously this is a thread about ideas, ideas that might not come true and obviously a bit of 'artistic license' should be given to such future ideas.
To begin with, some of the common ideas of Futurists, I won't name them. This is what is somewhat commonly thought as the future way we should be engineered as a society:
1. As technology advances (100yrs) we should move from scarcity which is the holy grail of money markets, to a resourced based world.
2. Eventually all things needed by human kind, are not only available, but available for free.
3. The banking, monetary system is obsolete and cannot sustain humanity. It is a benefit to a few, while harmful to many. We will move away from this.
4. Future life will require much less labour, and eventually very little actual 'jobs' as we see it. People can/will choose things they enjoy, art, sports, entertainment, invention, science, philosophy, etc.. While everyone lives with full health care, best education possible, and of course an active participation (or not) in this society.
So some of the key arguments for futurism, I'm missing a lot, and details are obviously something we work towards.
My questions to CPers, as we have some smart ones, is can you view firstly a world without monitary systems, a world where automation, robotics, AI and the ability to remove scarcity as we know it to achieve a society based on higher human achievements.
You can only imagine if the human race wasn't concerned with how to pay for mortgages, car loans, transportation, heating, electrical bills, education, health care, etc..
What is the human potential if we move away from what is already outdated to many people, and what could we achieve with technology and science to lead the way?
If you identify the future as what you understand things as you do today, then yes?
Do you have specific problem with social engineering or do you think the system we currently have political, economic, or otherwise is perfect and requires no new ideas.
Oh, goodie. Intellectual debate coming up. (Ps, I kind of got a little off topic without segueing back at the end, but that's because it's 3 am and I'm tired)
This world has been evolving for centuries from an autocratic one that benefited only the rich, to one without inhibition. Just like the economy, there are set backs to this that creep up every once in a while like Hitler, and other dictatorships. However, just like the economy, it is on a continual upward trend over time.
The current credit crisis has actually been a positive thing to help this trend along. Average people in the U.S. that didn't have the money to have the big screen tv's, the dream home were able to get a taste of what that lifestyle was all about. Obviously, the unfortunate thing is that they were all trying to do this in the current system which is flawed to only make the rich richer.
I firmly believe that the instigator for change is a fundamental change in the manner that we teach our children. I grew up in the early to mid-90's graduating from high school in 2002. From the age of 5, I was never challenged in school. That is one of the greatest problems of the current schooling system. They are teaching classes for the highest point on the bell curve, which puts a cap on the amount of education a person can get. Anybody above that threshold is just SOL. Computers are a great invention because they are relatively cheap, and they can provide all the information that anyone would want to know on anything. I have honestly learned more in the last year off things on the internet than I learned in 12 years of school combined. This is important because if we can change the manner in which the schools teach children, there will be a huge leap in the abilities of the children to better decide what they want to do with their lives.
Another personal example, when I was young, I always figured I was going to become a lawyer or a doctor because they were high paying jobs that the school was pretty much gearing us for. I could easily do either profession on an intellectual level, but neither of those things are for me. It wasn't until two full years after I was out of school that I settled on my current field, because I love it. Did they ever talk about anything like Interior Design during my many years at school? Of course not because that's not a typical job.
That is another thing that is flawed with education. Teaching for typical jobs. If there is a fundamental shift in education, which is teaching to the highest achievable level, then they also need to teach for things that are not as typical. People can be passionate about many weird and strange things, just as they can for being a lawyer, doctor or an accountant. Self determination will be one of the main cogs that drive the wave of change into the future.
One of the TED talks, a Professor from England was reiterating a story about a young girl with what would probably be diagnosed with ADD or ADHD today. Well, anyway, her mother took her to a child psychologist and he said that she is a dancer. Flash forward twenty years, and she was one of the premier dancers on Broadway and eventually wrote several plays including Cats. Over-medicating figity difficult children has to stop. They need to provide things that the children can express themselves openly.
After the way we teach things changes, there will be a huge leap toward this futurist goal.
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Last edited by Caged Great; 10-18-2008 at 03:22 AM.
If you identify the future as what you understand things as you do today, then yes?
Do you have specific problem with social engineering or do you think the system we currently have political, economic, or otherwise is perfect and requires no new ideas.
Social engineering is the tool of every dictator and totalitarian monster throughout history.
That all sounds nice, but it leaves out one important part: Human beings are hard wired to look out for number 1. With that comes the awesome basic of greed. While "You can only imagine if the human race wasn't concerned with how to pay for mortgages, car loans, transportation, heating, electrical bills, education, health care, etc.." sounds promising, humans will just find something else to want for, something else to buy to excess, something else to screw things up.
The system you've described sounds great, and were the world comprised of Mother Teresas and Mohatma Ghandis then it may work. But even if it were, someone would find a way to place personal gain at the forefront and screw the whole process up.
We end up in a world overpopulated by slackers because no one needs jobs or works and instead of enlightening themselves with all of this free time, they end up spending 20 hours a day playing the XBOX 72021 and the hot new game Call of Duty 42.
I don't think we need to worry about a future, or more specifically you won't need to worry about the future.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
That all sounds nice, but it leaves out one important part: Human beings are hard wired to look out for number 1. With that comes the awesome basic of greed. While "You can only imagine if the human race wasn't concerned with how to pay for mortgages, car loans, transportation, heating, electrical bills, education, health care, etc.." sounds promising, humans will just find something else to want for, something else to buy to excess, something else to screw things up.
The system you've described sounds great, and were the world comprised of Mother Teresas and Mohatma Ghandis then it may work. But even if it were, someone would find a way to place personal gain at the forefront and screw the whole process up.
You definitely make a point, but at the same time you're simply describing the world from John Locke's perspective. Personally, I think that it's inevitable that the world moves away from the ultra capitalistic system we subscribe to right now - For two main reasons; It's incredibly unsustainable to grow production levels perpetually, and economic 'progress' will continue to benefit less and less people. We will not spend the majority of our lives at work, as machines will virtually make humans irrelevant.
I disagree that people are 'hard wired' towards greed. I think we have been taught that doing so leads us down the path to success. The future will see a large shift away from success being measured in terms financial wealth and material positions. In fact, I see money becoming something of the past. Education will move away from strict job training and a larger emphasis will be put on how to simply enjoy life, be virtuous, etc. (obviously stealing that from Aristotle).
Collective living will take over from the obsession man has created with single dwelling homes. It makes sense for the sake of efficiency as well as sustainability. Our sense of community will return, something we lost after WWII in our move towards suburbs.
Of course people will cry out 'socialists!' to comments like this, but the fact of the matter is that it is, as or right now, it is the only way of living that will allow us to exist hundreds of years from now.
I think the whole point of societal evolution is to eventually work towards a utopia where we can achieve the highest point on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs with minimal worries.
That means food supplies are unlimited and renewable, technology is advanced where all jobs are automated and produce no waste, and money is not an issue as resources are plentiful and accessible to everyone. At this point, the only thing man has to worry about pursuing is their intellectual stimulation through art, science, philosophy, family, sports, etc.
The whole point of society evolving is to improve the lives of humans, so I wouldn't be surprised that, in 1000 years (barring no apocolyptic major wars or natural disasters), we will reach that state.
I think the whole point of societal evolution is to eventually work towards a utopia where we can achieve the highest point on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs with minimal worries.
That means food supplies are unlimited and renewable, technology is advanced where all jobs are automated and produce no waste, and money is not an issue as resources are plentiful and accessible to everyone. At this point, the only thing man has to worry about pursuing is their intellectual stimulation through art, science, philosophy, family, sports, etc.
The whole point of society evolving is to improve the lives of humans, so I wouldn't be surprised that, in 1000 years (barring no apocolyptic major wars or natural disasters), we will reach that state.
This is all cute and great, but how do we reach a point of no scarcity? It's impossible.
Oh, goodie. Intellectual debate coming up. (Ps, I kind of got a little off topic without segueing back at the end, but that's because it's 3 am and I'm tired)
This world has been evolving for centuries from an autocratic one that benefited only the rich, to one without inhibition. Just like the economy, there are set backs to this that creep up every once in a while like Hitler, and other dictatorships. However, just like the economy, it is on a continual upward trend over time.
The current credit crisis has actually been a positive thing to help this trend along. Average people in the U.S. that didn't have the money to have the big screen tv's, the dream home were able to get a taste of what that lifestyle was all about. Obviously, the unfortunate thing is that they were all trying to do this in the current system which is flawed to only make the rich richer.
I firmly believe that the instigator for change is a fundamental change in the manner that we teach our children. I grew up in the early to mid-90's graduating from high school in 2002. From the age of 5, I was never challenged in school. That is one of the greatest problems of the current schooling system. They are teaching classes for the highest point on the bell curve, which puts a cap on the amount of education a person can get. Anybody above that threshold is just SOL. Computers are a great invention because they are relatively cheap, and they can provide all the information that anyone would want to know on anything. I have honestly learned more in the last year off things on the internet than I learned in 12 years of school combined. This is important because if we can change the manner in which the schools teach children, there will be a huge leap in the abilities of the children to better decide what they want to do with their lives.
Another personal example, when I was young, I always figured I was going to become a lawyer or a doctor because they were high paying jobs that the school was pretty much gearing us for. I could easily do either profession on an intellectual level, but neither of those things are for me. It wasn't until two full years after I was out of school that I settled on my current field, because I love it. Did they ever talk about anything like Interior Design during my many years at school? Of course not because that's not a typical job.
That is another thing that is flawed with education. Teaching for typical jobs. If there is a fundamental shift in education, which is teaching to the highest achievable level, then they also need to teach for things that are not as typical. People can be passionate about many weird and strange things, just as they can for being a lawyer, doctor or an accountant. Self determination will be one of the main cogs that drive the wave of change into the future.
One of the TED talks, a Professor from England was reiterating a story about a young girl with what would probably be diagnosed with ADD or ADHD today. Well, anyway, her mother took her to a child psychologist and he said that she is a dancer. Flash forward twenty years, and she was one of the premier dancers on Broadway and eventually wrote several plays including Cats. Over-medicating figity difficult children has to stop. They need to provide things that the children can express themselves openly.
After the way we teach things changes, there will be a huge leap toward this futurist goal.
Great post.
One thing I'll add is that at some point society will start to hold the media accountable for what they report. They will care if the media is accurate or not and will understand the manner in which the media influences society the way it does today.
One of my engineering professors said in that in 20 years, we will no longer use laptops. Haha, yes I realize you guys are getting pretty deep into this topic and my response doesn't have the same effort put into it, but meh, that's all I got.
This video is from 2006 I believe (I'm sure some of you have watched it already), it sort of gets you thinking about what the future could be like...
I firmly believe that the instigator for change is a fundamental change in the manner that we teach our children. I grew up in the early to mid-90's graduating from high school in 2002. From the age of 5, I was never challenged in school. That is one of the greatest problems of the current schooling system. They are teaching classes for the highest point on the bell curve, which puts a cap on the amount of education a person can get. Anybody above that threshold is just SOL.
No offence Caged Great but I could not disagree with you more.
The problem IMO is the complete opposite. i.e.there is no such thing as being SOL these days. Everyone passes. There is no fail culture.
Students are slipping through the cracks and progressing all over the place starting with high school. Don't make the grade? Meh. Here's some extra work for you.
The result? Students entering 3rd level education that have no business being there in the first place and under the false impression/delusion that they are quaified to be.
What happens at university level. The exact same thing. Fail an exam and they b!tch and whine so much that for many profs it's just not worth the hassle and they don't have the time. They get a little bit of extra homework and they slip on through.
They turn up to exams and when asked to take their ipods out of their ears look all surprised and offended. When they're asked to put their books away it's an (Oh, I though it was an open book exam).
The fact is IMO education nowadays has become a commodity not a measuring standard for excellence. There is no fail culture. Students expect a degree because, well.... because they pay for it. The result a bunch of underqualified individuals with degrees getting a huge shock when they try and enter the real world.
An example. An e-mail that I was forwarded last year from a 4th year biology student. This is paraphrased, nonetheless perfectly true and did indeed happen.
Dear Prof X,
I am wondering about my exam results from (coursenumber).
I am confused as to why I only got a C considering I was sitting in the front row for all your lectures. Please can we meet to discuss this.
I think the whole point of societal evolution is to eventually work towards a utopia where we can achieve the highest point on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs with minimal worries.
That means food supplies are unlimited and renewable, technology is advanced where all jobs are automated and produce no waste, and money is not an issue as resources are plentiful and accessible to everyone. At this point, the only thing man has to worry about pursuing is their intellectual stimulation through art, science, philosophy, family, sports, etc.
The whole point of society evolving is to improve the lives of humans, so I wouldn't be surprised that, in 1000 years (barring no apocolyptic major wars or natural disasters), we will reach that state.
I don't think that's enough the satisfy intellectual stimulation. I think humans have an inherant need to have things others don't. In a world where everyone has everything they "need", humans would not be happy. I know this view is pretty glass half empty, but it seems true based on everything I've seen in history.
The problem with striving for Utopia, is that Utopia as usually desribed does not satisfy the human desires. Humans need others to lose, in order to feel like they win.
The fact is IMO education nowadays has become a commodity not a measuring standard for excellence. There is no fail culture. Students expect a degree because, well.... because they pay for it. The result a bunch of underqualified individuals with degrees getting a huge shock when they try and enter the real world.
An example. An e-mail that I was forwarded last year from a 4th year biology student. This is paraphrased, nonetheless perfectly true and did indeed happen.
Dear Prof X,
I am wondering about my exam results from (coursenumber).
I am confused as to why I only got a C considering I was sitting in the front row for all your lectures. Please can we meet to discuss this.
Regards .........
Bear in mind this was a 4th year!
I dunno if I'd agree with that either. I graduated from the Business school at the U of C in 2006, and was never thrown a bone... once. I fought and studied extremely hard to graduate from the program with decent marks, and worked 20-30 hours a week on top of that for five years straight during university.
Post secondary education, while in no way or shape flawless, has enough applicants that they CAN fail and turn away students. I've seen many of my friends fail, some even drop out because it was too hard and unforgiving.
I dunno if I'd agree with that either. I graduated from the Business school at the U of C in 2006, and was never thrown a bone... once. I fought and studied extremely hard to graduate from the program with decent marks, and worked 20-30 hours a week on top of that for five years straight during university.
Post secondary education, while in no way or shape flawless, has enough applicants that they CAN fail and turn away students. I've seen many of my friends fail, some even drop out because it was too hard and unforgiving.
Point taken. I should have said from my experiences.
The problem IMO is the complete opposite. i.e.there is no such thing as being SOL these days. Everyone passes. There is no fail culture.
Students are slipping through the cracks and progressing all over the place starting with high school. Don't make the grade? Meh. Here's some extra work for you.
The result? Students entering 3rd level education that have no business being there in the first place and under the false impression/delusion that they are quaified to be.
What happens at university level. The exact same thing. Fail an exam and they b!tch and whine so much that for many profs it's just not worth the hassle and they don't have the time. They get a little bit of extra homework and they slip on through.
I'm going to have to disagree. I'm in engineering at the U of S and the failure rate is pretty high. I've heard from many different people (I couldn't find a link so you'll just have to take my word for it) that somewhere in the area of 50% of 1st year engineering students either fail or drop out. That's a huge number of people who aren't slipping through the cracks. One of the professors even told us "I'd highly recommend you do not get a part time job. If you do, you'll most likely fail".
We end up in a world overpopulated by slackers because no one needs jobs or works and instead of enlightening themselves with all of this free time, they end up spending 20 hours a day playing the XBOX 72021 and the hot new game Call of Duty 42.
A person from 1908 would probably say that is exactly what we are -- a bunch of slackers sitting around, staring at computers and doing a whole lot of not much.
In totally unrelated news, I have a banner ad on the top right of my screen for westjetvacations.com and I've glanced at it a couple times and read it as wetejaculations.com and done a double take.
Futurism, imagining what might be....
