EPL predictions

[Jagger]

Since it's almost that time of year anybody want to venture a guess at the outcome of this year's EPL? Same old, same old or any dark horses out there?

I'm going for same old, except Liverpool to finish 2nd this season:

1. Man U
2. Liverpool
3. Chelsea
4. Spurs
5. Arsenal

[ricoFlame]

ManU
chelsea
liverpool
tottenham
Reading (i'm reaching here, but i really want them to earn a spot in europe)

[troutman]

Any chance it won't be the Big 4?

I like football, but how do fans of all the other teams justify supporting a league that only has 4 competitive teams? The rest are pretty much development squads for the big 4 now, and with UEFA $ getting so big, the problem just perpetuates itself.

The concept would be really foreign in Europe, but would they ever introduce salary caps, revenue sharing or amateur drafts?

Should the fans of all the other teams boycott EPL until the playing field is level? Would you follow an NHL where NYR, DET, TOR and COL fill out the top 4 every year? I don't think we would stand for this in North America.

[KevanGuy]

I think Arsenal will fall out of the top 4 this year. Possibly replaced by Tottenham (as sick as that makes me to say). Newcastle has a great chance to finish close to top five if they can stay f'ing healthy.

1. ManU
2. Liverpool
3. Chelsea
4. Tottenham
5. Arsenal (or Newcastle depending on injuries)

[604flames]

I'd like to see Southampton get promoted this season..

[kdogg]

1. Chelsea
2. Man U
3. Liverpool
4. Tottenham
5. Arsenal (they might not even make it here...)
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[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by troutman

Any chance it won't be the Big 4?

I like football, but how do fans of all the other teams justify supporting a league that only has 4 competitive teams? The rest are pretty much development squads for the big 4 now, and with UEFA $ getting so big, the problem just perpetuates itself.

The concept would be really foreign in Europe, but would they ever introduce salary caps, revenue sharing or amateur drafts?

Should the fans of all the other teams boycott EPL until the playing field is level? Would you follow an NHL where NYR, DET, TOR and COL fill out the top 4 every year? I don't think we would stand for this in North America.

They dont want a level playing field. People are fanatical about their teams regardless of if their competitive or not and love it when the big boys come to town. Every soccer league has a BIG 3 or 4 and it's still the most watched sport in the world.

We do stand for it in North America. We followed the NHL back when the habs, islanders and oilers were the only cup winners in 13 years didn't we? Bulls? Lakers? Yankees? Dodgers? 49ers? Cowboys? Patriots? and maybe Colts?

The more money a European league makes, the more the other teams will spend money to catch up raising the overall level of the league. You have to remember that in North America, NHL, NBA, MLB and NFL are monopolies. The only leagues of it's kind. In soccer.. you have 100 leagues competing with each other. 10 years ago, Serie A as a whole was the big spender. Now it's pretty far behind EPL and La Liga.

[Jagger]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

They dont want a level playing field. People are fanatical about their teams regardless of if their competitive or not and love it when the big boys come to town. Every soccer league has a BIG 3 or 4 and it's still the most watched sport in the world.

We do stand for it in North America. We followed the NHL back when the habs, islanders and oilers were the only cup winners in 13 years didn't we? Bulls? Lakers? Yankees? Dodgers? 49ers? Cowboys? Patriots? and maybe Colts?

That's a really good post and right on the money. Liverpool were the elite team during the 80's, ManU in the 90's, and in the 00's it has been mostly Chelski and ManU. There will always been elite teams but it doesn't stop Tranmere Rovers, Bristol City fans and the like from supporting their team through thick and thin. It's almost a religion. When the likes of Tranmere play one of the big boys in the cup it's a great occasion with the chance of a major shock. (Tranmere have a history of doing this.)

[Saint Troy]

Cripes the spurs love in is sickening, it will still be three point lane again this year...

1.Chelski
2.Man U
3.Gunners
4.Liverpool
15.Spurs

[Jagger]

Originally Posted by Saint Troy

Cripes the spurs love in is sickening, it will still be three point lane again this year...

Spoken like a true Arse fan!

Like it or not, Spurs will be much improved this season.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Jagger

That's a really good post and right on the money. Liverpool were the elite team during the 80's, ManU in the 90's, and in the 00's it has been mostly Chelski and ManU. There will always been elite teams but it doesn't stop Tranmere Rovers, Bristol City fans and the like from supporting their team through thick and thin. It's almost a religion. When the likes of Tranmere play one of the big boys in the cup it's a great occasion with the chance of a major shock. (Tranmere have a history of doing this.)

Yes! Tranmere always raise their game against the big boys.
The FA Cup has the Final Four feel to it where the little guys celebrate drawing the big boys. I also remember Wycombe making it to the semis once? That was special.

Remember in 2004 when the Flames came up against Detroit in the playoffs? I would hear things like "You think we really have a chance?", "They're going to destroy us, I hope we don't look bad", "It's a miracle we're here". There was so much excitement because after 7 years, Calgary was finally facing a top gun. And as the series whent on it was when the Sea of Red really took off.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by troutman

Any chance it won't be the Big 4?

I like football, but how do fans of all the other teams justify supporting a league that only has 4 competitive teams? The rest are pretty much development squads for the big 4 now, and with UEFA $ getting so big, the problem just perpetuates itself.

The concept would be really foreign in Europe, but would they ever introduce salary caps, revenue sharing or amateur drafts?

Should the fans of all the other teams boycott EPL until the playing field is level? Would you follow an NHL where NYR, DET, TOR and COL fill out the top 4 every year? I don't think we would stand for this in North America.

Great post. It's the main reason why I can't stand European soccer. Competition between 'lesser teams' and the 'big 4' is a joke. But yet there are always fans of these lesser teams who for whatever reason keep showing up. Major League Baseball has this problem too. I grew up playing and loving baseball. With every third place finish of the Blue Jays in the AL East a little piece of my baseball soul dies. I watch less and less of it each year until eventually I won't follow it at all. If Europeans were any bit egalitarian, fans of these lesser teams should slowly fade out too.

[moon]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

We do stand for it in North America. We followed the NHL back when the habs, islanders and oilers were the only cup winners in 13 years didn't we? Bulls? Lakers? Yankees? Dodgers? 49ers? Cowboys? Patriots? and maybe Colts?

The difference is that those teams were able to dominate because of smart drafting/trading not because they had so much more money that they would just buy the best players from the other teams once the guy becomes a star.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by moon

The difference is that those teams were able to dominate because of smart drafting/trading not because they had so much more money that they would just buy the best players from the other teams once the guy becomes a star.

I think the "money buying a championship" argument is really overated. The 1997 Florida Marlins is the only team I can think of that blatently bought a championship. All other championships in any sport were built through drafts and trades. If you could name other examples, I'd be interested to hear them.

Now if you were to make the arguement that some teams are more capable of dishing out the dough to 'maintain' their talent while smaller teams could not afford to keep their stars, that's another story. However, IMHO any team that doesn't spend money to keep the stars they produced has a cheap owner who doesn't want to win, plain and simple.

[moon]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think the "money buying a championship" argument is really overated. The 1997 Florida Marlins is the only team I can think of that blatently bought a championship. All other championships in any sport were built through drafts and trades. If you could name other examples, I'd be interested to hear them.

Now if you were to make the arguement that some teams are more capable of dishing out the dough to 'maintain' their talent while smaller teams could not afford to keep their stars, that's another story. However, IMHO any team that doesn't spend money to keep the stars they produced has a cheap owner who doesn't want to win, plain and simple.

I was referring to Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal and Liverpool being able to continually buy players.

You referred to teams in the NHL that dominated by drafting and trading which is a lot easier for fans of other teams to deal than the fans of other teams in the EPL that know even with good player development they might have one year to compete before those same players are going to one of the top clubs.

That is why fans in NA were able to deal with their domination over what occurs in the EPL.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by moon

I was referring to Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal and Liverpool being able to continually buy players.

You referred to teams in the NHL that dominated by drafting and trading which is a lot easier for fans of other teams to deal than the fans of other teams in the EPL that know even with good player development they might have one year to compete before those same players are going to one of the top clubs.

That is why fans in NA were able to deal with their domination over what occurs in the EPL.

Aha. You quoted the North American section of my original post so I was confused hehehe. Soccer's been like that for 100 years. People usually cheer for their hometown team + one big team. Plus in soccer there's alot to shoot for not just the premier league title. There's cups, and divisions and relegation and rivalries. Fans of most teams don't care about winning the title, the just want to beat the team down the street!

Alot of it is homegrown talent too. A star can play for his town first, then be sold off to a big club. The town will then spend the money to build more seats and buy a couple of more players essentially to beat the team down the street!

You mentioned Chelsea, they're a new force because of a billionaire owner.
Chelsea sucked for about 50 years! They are actually a smaller team than Spurs or even Fulham!

[Jagger]

Originally Posted by moon

I was referring to Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal and Liverpool being able to continually buy players.

You referred to teams in the NHL that dominated by drafting and trading which is a lot easier for fans of other teams to deal than the fans of other teams in the EPL that know even with good player development they might have one year to compete before those same players are going to one of the top clubs.

That is why fans in NA were able to deal with their domination over what occurs in the EPL.

It's a completely different situation in football though, and something that fans have been brought up with. I was used to transfers for money and was surprised to find that it was all about trades and drafts here. That was a completely foreign concept to me all those years ago. Fans of those 'other' teams understand the situation and will deal with it as it is all about supporting their team. A Middlesbrough fan realistically knows that they will not be winning the Premier this season. However, they still have the chance of cup glory and beating the likes of rivals, Newcastle, and any of the elite 4, and not being relegated. That is huge for them. It does not detract from their support of the team, it enhances it. Some people like supporting the underdog or 'little' club.

Personally I lived in an area where I could support and attend two different teams at entirely different levels. It was great. I've supported both Tranmere Rovers and Liverpool for over 30 years. Tranmere used to be in the old 4th division so it was all about fighting relegation and gaining promotion, along with cup battles against the big teams. Liverpool, of course, are on a completely different level. They've always won things and I've followed them in Europe on numerous occasions. I enjoy supporting both teams equally, just for very different reasons. Sure, Tranmere lost good players like Jason Koumas and, Canadian, Iain Hume to bigger clubs but that revenue is a godsend to a club like the Rovers. The fans really do support the jersey and club. Players will come and go but the club remains the same. I've seen Tranmere make the league cup final and considered it a bigger triumph then some of Liverpool's. I supported the team in the Layland Daf cup at the old Wembley stadium and celebrated as much for that win as I did when Liverpool won the European Cup against Real Madrid in 1981. In a sense Tranmere's seemed like a bigger victory given their limited budget and status.

Fans of smaller teams relish supporting them. It's a part of their culture and life. It's who they are. They are not jealous of the elite clubs. They hate them of course and want them to fail but that is a completely different thing. Also, the past has shown that not all the big spending teams always have success. The Mancs spent like crazy for years and years but still went 26 years between titles.

It is different to North American sports and I understand why it may be hard to grasp or understand; just as drafts and trades are a different concept for most football fans.

[Igottago]

Soccer is a bit different than hockey, in that players transfer from league to league and country to country much more, meaning Chelsea and Man U are not only competing for players in the premeirship, but are also competing with Real Madrid, Barcelona, etc. So if they capped the premiership, most high end players would just go to spain, italy, germany.

With the NHL everyone knows that it is the top league and the best place to earn top dollars.

But I agree that competetive balance is out of whack..I personally think Champions league should actually be a full season league of the top teams in europe, and they could get relegated/promoted from their domestic leagues.

[troutman]

Thanks folks - good explanations on both sides.

Go Newcastle!

[moon]

Originally Posted by Jagger

It's a completely different situation in football though, and something that fans have been brought up with. I was used to transfers for money and was surprised to find that it was all about trades and drafts here. That was a completely foreign concept to me all those years ago. Fans of those 'other' teams understand the situation and will deal with it as it is all about supporting their team. A Middlesbrough fan realistically knows that they will not be winning the Premier this season. However, they still have the chance of cup glory and beating the likes of rivals, Newcastle, and any of the elite 4, and not being relegated. That is huge for them. It does not detract from their support of the team, it enhances it. Some people like supporting the underdog or 'little' club.

Fans of smaller teams relish supporting them. It's a part of their culture and life. It's who they are. They are not jealous of the elite clubs. They hate them of course and want them to fail but that is a completely different thing. Also, the past has shown that not all the big spending teams always have success. The Mancs spent like crazy for years and years but still went 26 years between titles.

It is different to North American sports and I understand why it may be hard to grasp or understand; just as drafts and trades are a different concept for most football fans.

I understand it and used to follow the EPL quite seriously until a few years ago, and still follow it now as much as I can. I also have enjoyed following smaller teams and attending their games at least as much as going to White Heart Lane.

I was just pointing out that the situations in Sporty Girls situation of NHL dominance was different from that of the dominance of Man U et al.