Metal detectors, pat downs and fingerprinting

[calf]

Link

Looks like Mr Paul Vickers is going to institute pat downs, metal detectors and possibly fingerprinting at his establishments.

Finger printing????

[Fobulous]

Fingerprinting... man that is nuts.

Calgary clubs are getting more and more ridiculous. I thought that they were meant to have fun at. Now its like you can never be safe going to a club because the people inside have guns and knives.


I guess if fingerprinting is what needs to be done to keep people safe, then so be it.

[calf]

Originally posted by Doggy Dogg@Oct 15 2004, 12:59 PM
I guess if fingerprinting is what needs to be done to keep people safe, then so be it.

I personally fail to see what fingerprinting can do to keep people safe. Scanning the ID at the door does basically the same thing, IMO (although fingerprints are harder to counterfeit).

[I-Hate-Hulse]

I'm sure some of the female gender aren't going to like the "patdowns" administered by some lunkhead bouncers...

For the most part the stabbings are happening just outside the entrance or in the parking lot. These measure won't do a whole lot for that.

Something is better than nothing... didn't the Taz have metal detectors in place for quite some time? (It's gone now, I know)

[Superfraggle]

Originally posted by calf+Oct 15 2004, 01:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (calf @ Oct 15 2004, 01:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Doggy Dogg@Oct 15 2004, 12:59 PM
I guess if fingerprinting is what needs to be done to keep people safe, then so be it.

I personally fail to see what fingerprinting can do to keep people safe. Scanning the ID at the door does basically the same thing, IMO (although fingerprints are harder to counterfeit). [/b][/quote]
it may not be very useful as a preventative measure, but it could be very helpful after the fact. You can't use a fake fingerprint like you can with regular ID

[KevanGuy]

I won't be going anywhere that fingerprints me to get in. Thats ridiculous. I'm not a fan of ID scanning either. The name's Shackleford, Rusty Shackleford.

[Tron_fdc]

I don't go to these lame ass bars anyways, so it doesn't bother me any. The only thing that might bother me is if I get searched on the day I try to bring my can of gasoline into Cowboys.....

[Bill Bumface]

Originally posted by KevanGuy@Oct 15 2004, 02:48 PM
I won't be going anywhere that fingerprints me to get in. Thats ridiculous. I'm not a fan of ID scanning either. The name's Shackleford, Rusty Shackleford.

Why would you be objected to ID scans if you have nothing to hide?

Its well worth the inconvenience of waiting for 3 seconds for them to scan your id to know that the troublemakers are going to be denied access for your safety.


Tron_fdc: I'll bring the matches

[FlamesAllTheWay]

I think fingerprinting is to I.D. people if some sort of a crime is commited. So it'll be like a deterence for people from doing something stupid because they know they'll be way easier to catch if they've been fingerprinted.

I personally don't care what they do at all. People that don't like it don't need to go. Their bar, their rules...

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by hulkrogan+Oct 15 2004, 09:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hulkrogan @ Oct 15 2004, 09:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-KevanGuy@Oct 15 2004, 02:48 PM
I won't be going anywhere that fingerprints me to get in. Thats ridiculous. I'm not a fan of ID scanning either. The name's Shackleford, Rusty Shackleford.

Why would you be objected to ID scans if you have nothing to hide?

Its well worth the inconvenience of waiting for 3 seconds for them to scan your id to know that the troublemakers are going to be denied access for your safety.


Tron_fdc: I'll bring the matches [/b][/quote]
Ah, the most persuasive argument in favour of increased id scanning. "If you've got nothing to hide, what's the problem?".

I hate the thought of constant identifcation, but that notion is pretty compelling.

[lucid]

Their bar, their rules... but does this contravene civil liberties in some way?
Not that I really go to those places anyways, but I'm staying clear of places asking for fingerprints. That's heavy duty stuff, and i don't think anyone should just have the right to collect that information. Who knows what could happen? If this information ends up in the wrong hands, there could be some very serious repercussions. Maybe I'm too much of a pessimist, always thinking of the worst possible scenario...
Go ahead, make me walk through a metal detector, but fingerprinting is too far for my taste. Talk about security! This is *supposed* to make these places safer, somehow. Think about the the security problems that can come about with having yourself fingerprinted at the door of one of these establishments.

My $0.02

[???]

Originally posted by hulkrogan+Oct 15 2004, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hulkrogan @ Oct 15 2004, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-KevanGuy@Oct 15 2004, 02:48 PM
I won't be going anywhere that fingerprints me to get in. Thats ridiculous. I'm not a fan of ID scanning either. The name's Shackleford, Rusty Shackleford.

Why would you be objected to ID scans if you have nothing to hide?

[/b][/quote]
i object to my id being scaned cause after you do it you get tons of junk mail sent to your house.

[calf]

Originally posted by ???+Oct 15 2004, 04:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (??? @ Oct 15 2004, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Why would you be objected to ID scans if you have nothing to hide?

i object to my id being scaned cause after you do it you get tons of junk mail sent to your house. [/b][/quote]
is that true though? IIRC, the system that the Den at the UofC uses is connected to other bar's systems to red flag the trouble makers, but the information obtained is used for that and that only. I doubt Vickers stupid enough to sell people's information like that...since it's illegal if they collect your information and use it in ways you didn't concent to (Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act is what it's called...in place in Jan 2004). I doubt Vickers would want to be on the hook for a big ass lawsuit when people find out that their info was sold for a quick buck. Then again Vickers is apparently a sleaze-ball, so who knows...

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by ???+Oct 15 2004, 04:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (??? @ Oct 15 2004, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Why would you be objected to ID scans if you have nothing to hide?

i object to my id being scaned cause after you do it you get tons of junk mail sent to your house. [/b][/quote]
Laugh no doubt. But that's a valid point. I'm sure a resourceful person could come up with all kinds of things to do with a scan of your driver's license. Maybe even make his own copy. I don't know what kind of ethics training these bouncers go through, but I'm sure it's not very rigorous.

"If you've got nothing to hide" is a lame argument.

[???]

i did the id scan a few times and after that the bar sent me a crap load of promos for the bar.

[KevanGuy]

My personal info isnt something I think bars should be privvy to UNLESS I do something that would cause them to need it. Rules are in effect that limit what businesses can do with your personal info once they receive it but I think that by voluntarily handing that info over to them you are opening yourself up to the possibility that your ifo will be put on a list and used for any number of things.

And, food for thought, what if you match the description of someone that stabs someone and takes off? Could be a hastle.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos@Oct 15 2004, 11:15 PM
"If you've got nothing to hide" is a lame argument.

Agreed. And yet I don't think I could win an argument against it. I guess the 'slippery slope' concept might combat it, but even still, it's YOUR safety they're looking out for (or so they claim). I saw a news story about a lot of seniors getting medical implants that, when read, can inform hospitals of their blood type, medication history, etc. Having an implant in you may allow you to be tracked, identified, etc. Should they be allowed? It's voluntary for the seniors (just like choosing a bar). Unless there's a another reason for implementation.

Any idea as to why they'd institute this? I'm betting that insurance companies give discounts to bars that have a system like this. Could be wrong though.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally posted by hulkrogan@Oct 15 2004, 03:35 PM
Why would you be objected to ID scans if you have nothing to hide?

I will never understand that line of reasoning. I've got nothing to hide, but that doesn't mean I want some stranger to know information about me.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by MrMastodonFarm+Oct 15 2004, 11:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MrMastodonFarm @ Oct 15 2004, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hulkrogan@Oct 15 2004, 03:35 PM
Why would you be objected to ID scans if you have nothing to hide?

I will never understand that line of reasoning. I've got nothing to hide, but that doesn't mean I want some stranger to know information about me. [/b][/quote]
I can see your point there, but I would rather have said stranger knowing a bit of information about me such as my address than be at a greater risk of attack. I guess it is a bit of a tradeoff, but personally I would take the chance that my security at a club is increased if it meant that someone could figure out what my address was. Just a personal prefrence/

[zarrell]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard+Oct 15 2004, 05:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mean Mr. Mustard @ Oct 15 2004, 05:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I will never understand that line of reasoning. I've got nothing to hide, but that doesn't mean I want some stranger to know information about me.

I can see your point there, but I would rather have said stranger knowing a bit of information about me such as my address than be at a greater risk of attack. I guess it is a bit of a tradeoff, but personally I would take the chance that my security at a club is increased if it meant that someone could figure out what my address was. Just a personal prefrence/ [/b][/quote]
Do you feel like you are at a risk for an attack when you go to a bar now? Does anybody?

The easiest way to deter assualts and such is simply, to have a few cop cars drive by the bars at, or around closing time (this is when most of the trouble happens) to make themselves known.