The Flames top playoff performers

[TheIronMaiden]

This rendition of the Flames has played 30 playoff games. It is well documented that they have only made it to the second round once. What is less certain is why this is. A lot of blame is pointed at the Flames top line specifically Monahan and Gaudreau. Most of this discussion is directed at their apparent lack of production in the post season.

Out of curiosity I looked up the Flames top play off performers to see if we could understand what the problem is from a points perspective.

I used Quant-Hockey as my source - so any statistical errors are their own.

Firstly the Flames all time top 5 are

Al MacInnis - 95 gp 102 pts
Paul Reinhart 76 gp 72 pts
Theoren Fleury 59 gp - 62 pts
Joe Nieuwendyk 66 gp - 60 pts
Joel Otto 87 gp - 60 pts


For the current Flames top five, I will put their position all time in brackets.

(22)Sean Monahan 30 gp - 21 pts
(23) Sam Bennett 30 gp - 19 pts
(24) Gaudreau 30 gp - 19 pts
(31) T.J Brodie 30 gp - 15 pts
(35) Mikael Backlund 30 gp - 14 pts


Looking around at the top play off performers over the last span of time - Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago, L.A, Boston.

What is consistent for these teams is that they have a handful of players who are .800 Ppg average or over. Many of these teams have player who are a ppg in the playoffs. Within that group of top producers is almost always a D man.

It seems that from this perspective the Flames problems are twofold. 1stly they don't have a single player who produces at consistent enough of a rate in the playoffs. Secondly, the Flames don't have a D man who contributes enough offensively in the big games. A third point worth noting is that the Flames rely too heavily on three players come playoff time which anecdotally makes them too easy to defend against.

Is there a solution from the inside?

right now it is possible That Andersson with 15 gp and 8 pts could provide that much needed production from the back end, and maybe even 15 gp and 8 points Lindholm or 10 gp and 5 pts Dube could help shore up the depth. Nevertheless, the issue remains the same, the Flames simply don't get consistent enough production in the post season.

[Kipper_3434]

Surprised Gio didn't make the current top 5. Chucky hasn't played many games has he?. Can you include the entire current roster and their playoff production as flames. Hard to have context when some people don't make the list cause they played less games. Like lindholm.

[TheIronMaiden]

63 Andresson 15 gp 8 pts
65 Lindholm 15 gp 8 pts
74 Giordano 23 gp 7 pts
80 Mangiapane 15 gp 6 pts
85 Lucic 10 gp 6 pts
88 Dube 10 gp 5 pts
90 Rieder 10 gp 5 pts
93 Tkachuk 15 gp 5 pts
99 Hanifin 15 gp 5 pts
111 Gustafsson 10 gp 4 pts
121 Ryan 15 gp 3 pts
135 Forbbort 10 gp 2 pts
149 Stone 4 gp 1 pts
160 Quine 3 gp 1 pts.

Based on this list the biggest underperformers are Tkachuk and Gio.

[bubbsy]

Where do the sutter era core guys land on that list (Iggy, etc)?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Where do the sutter era core guys land on that list (Iggy, etc)?

iggy was a ppg player 54 gp 49 pts
Conroy however was 45 gp and 22 pts...

an aside but Monahan is ranked 16th all time for p/gp in the playoffs for the Flames at .700

Bennett and Gaudreau are 20 and 21 at 0.633

[djsFlames]

I do expect Tkachuk to elevate statistically in future showings.

But yeah Gio, just not a big game performer. You wouldn't figure.

[Monahammer]

Gio has been playoff garbage all career. Trade him if there's still any value to be had!

Also want to say that this validates my feelings about playoff Monahan- rather than Johnny anchored with him (as is usually the narrative during the regular season) Monahan is anchored pretty terribly by johnny in the playoffs.

[Robbob]

Gio hasn't exactly had the offensive production, but defensively I thought he did well playing against the top line for Dallas. What I think we are seeing is the start of the Andersson-Hanifin elevate to the top pairing. Gio can slide back and maybe let Valimaki ride shotgun for a year if there is an exodus from the back end.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Gio hasn't exactly had the offensive production, but defensively I thought he did well playing against the top line for Dallas. What I think we are seeing is the start of the Andersson-Hanifin elevate to the top pairing. Gio can slide back and maybe let Valimaki ride shotgun for a year if there is an exodus from the back end.

I might have seen it posted here recently, but I recall this as a pretty good explanation for what we are seeing with Giordano in the playoffs. He has one gear, which serves him very well most of the time, but seems to hurt him in the post-season when everyone else has ramped up. Giordano's Norris Trophy season was partially due to the fact that he plays so hard all the time. But then when the playoffs start and other players have found that other gear, he is less impactful because that is the level he has been playing at all along.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I might have seen it posted here recently, but I recall this as a pretty good explanation for what we are seeing with Giordano in the playoffs. He has one gear, which serves him very well most of the time, but seems to hurt him in the post-season when everyone else has ramped up. Giordano's Norris Trophy season was partially due to the fact that he plays so hard all the time. But then when the playoffs start and other players have found that other gear, he is less impactful because that is the level he has been playing at all along.

Yeah, I believe Bingo mentioned that in the podcast. I totally agree he isn't as impactful as people want him to, but he is far from an anchor on the back end. He still plays a lot of hard minutes. If the Andersson-Hanifin pairing can make the jump to the first pairing, it could benefit Gio.

[jg13]

Regular season Giordano plays with the effort and heart of other top defensemen in the league during playoffs.

He doesn’t have another gear to reach in the playoffs because he’s already playing to his maximum potential during regular season games. Which is why he looks so average during the playoffs

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by jg13

Regular season Giordano plays with the effort and heart of other top defensemen in the league during playoffs.

He doesn’t have another gear to reach in the playoffs because he’s already playing to his maximum potential during regular season games. Which is why he looks so average during the playoffs

I do think this is a thing for some players.

Guys like Gio made it in this league because they give 110% every night. They fought to get into the league, and did so through hard work not necessarily because they are more talented than other players.

So it’s tougher for them to find that extra gear because they can’t just start working harder, they are in that gear all the time.

I think it’s the same thing with Derek Ryan who is serviceable in the regular season, and then just gets overmatched at times come playoff time.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't agree with Giordano having just 'one gear' and he isn't effective when everyone ramps up.


Giordano started the playoffs playing shaky. I don't know why. Giordano finished playing fairly well, and much closer to how Giordano usually plays. I don't think he went up or down a gear, or that other players going up a gear somehow made him seem pedestrian. He was pedestrian because he simply played poorly, but managed to get his game together as the games went by.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I don't agree with Giordano having just 'one gear' and he isn't effective when everyone ramps up.


Giordano started the playoffs playing shaky. I don't know why. Giordano finished playing fairly well, and much closer to how Giordano usually plays. I don't think he went up or down a gear, or that other players going up a gear somehow made him seem pedestrian. He was pedestrian because he simply played poorly, but managed to get his game together as the games went by.

I tend to agree. The one gear thing doesn’t really explain it for me. There are a lot of players that play hard all season and are still able to find success in the post season. And if the jump between playoff and regular season quality of play was that dramatic we’d see a many more guys who would realize that ramping up the intensity in the regular season would make them a whole lot more money.

I’m sure it’s an element but his play has dropped off IMO in the playoffs.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Gio has been playoff garbage all career. Trade him if there's still any value to be had!

Also want to say that this validates my feelings about playoff Monahan- rather than Johnny anchored with him (as is usually the narrative during the regular season) Monahan is anchored pretty terribly by johnny in the playoffs.

Most of those points are PP points.
Where Gaudreau carries the puck in to the zone, distributes the puck around the zone and most often feeds Monahan a slot pass to get his points.

Without Gaudreau, Monahan's numbers are way lower. Without Monahan finishing, Gaudreau's numbers are way lower.

Realty is they are both not high enough producers for us to compare with the top teams, this argument of who anchors who is silly.

[Enoch Root]

I don't buy the 'already at top gear' argument either.

What I noticed, in the Wpg series especially, was a guy that was holding his stick a little too tight, playoff nerves. He was always looking for the bailout play instead of remaining calm and making a good play. And I have noticed that with him in the playoffs before as weel.

I put it down to the fact that he has had very little playoff experience, and still gets nervous, like young players do. He flips between trying to do too much, and panicking and doing too little.

However, I expect Gio will be fine when things get started again.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Most of those points are PP points.
Where Gaudreau carries the puck in to the zone, distributes the puck around the zone and most often feeds Monahan a slot pass to get his points.

Without Gaudreau, Monahan's numbers are way lower. Without Monahan finishing, Gaudreau's numbers are way lower.

Realty is they are both not high enough producers for us to compare with the top teams, this argument of who anchors who is silly.

Gaudreau will put up points with any decent offensive player in this league...his totals will be higher when he isn't the only guy on the ice that can carry the puck into the zone

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Gaudreau will put up points with any decent offensive player in this league...his totals will be higher when he isn't the only guy on the ice that can carry the puck into the zone

Man would I love to watch one year of this team signing Hall and getting a strong veteran coach.

[Strange Brew]

A guy like Otto who increases his production in the playoffs (over a large sample size no less) is so valuable. That alone makes him an all time Flame.

And Reinhart had some incredible playoff runs. An incredible playoff performer.

[FBI]

Can you redo the lists ppg? That makes more sense