Man Arrested for Murder

[Patek23]

Raping and Murder of his daughter. I can't find the link but saw this on TV last night. I know it's still illegal but IMO I have no sympathy for the victims and wish more harm could have been done on them, there is no excuse for the rape and murder of a child. It is times like this were you really wish there was a hell.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by Flaming Homer@Sep 17 2005, 10:34 PM
Raping and Murder of his daughter. I can't find the link but saw this on TV last night. I know it's still illegal but IMO I have no sympathy for the victims and wish more harm could have been done on them, there is no excuse for the rape and murder of a child. It is times like this were you really wish there was a hell.

There's no excuse for murder either. That's why each example (rape and murder) will be looked at as a 'crime', instead of the latter as 'justified revenge'. Individuals do not have the right in 'civilized' societies to exact personal retribution. Otherwise we'd live in Flame of Liberty's 'state-that-is-not-a-state'.

I'm always mystified when one person kills another, and a dozen people jump on the board to say 'good'. Sheesh, this is life and death stuff here. This is a horrible event, there is no good here.

'Still illegal'...? You envision a day when personal murderous retribution is not? I'd better keep my nose clean...

[Resolute 14]

It's not good that this man has not only lost his daughter in the worst way possible, but has also lost his life. The latter part was his own choice though, so not much sympathy for that.

As far as the rapist being killed, I sincerely hope he died in the most painful way possible. If there is any good in this situation, it is that this man probably saved another family (-ies) from suffering a similar fate.

[Claeren]

Sex crime punishments are severly lacking IMO.

It is disgusting how easily peoples lives are completely ruined by these monsters yet after the crime it is the criminal that is the 'victim' and the victims become the 'punished'.


IMHO a sex crime is almost always WORSE then a murder, and many victims would chose death... until society starts to react properly to the depth of these crimes i say the criminals are fair game for those wanting to go that far.

Crimes like this are a barameter and frankly i am surprised we do not see more of it. I KNOW i would do the same to anyone who took such criminal liberties with my loved ones....


Claeren.

[Faid1]

Originally posted by Claeren@Sep 18 2005, 09:51 AM
IMHO a sex crime is almost always WORSE then a murder, and many victims would chose death... until society starts to react properly to the depth of these crimes i say the criminals are fair game for those wanting to go that far.

You're going to have to back this one up

[Weiser Wonder]

There's no way I could understand what kind of pain the father is going through and he should be given some slack by the law. However, what this guy did was foolish and short-sighted. He will no longer be there for the loved ones that need him now more than ever, he has made a horrible situation worse. Poor guy.
Rapists are people too, I know that's not what people ever want to hear but after knowing people who work with criminals and seeing stuff first hand and it's very very true. Not that the guy didn't deserve life in prison and to live with the guilt, but as a Christian I try to be compassionate towards him as that is the major part of my faith and how I try to live my life.

[Resolute 14]

I cant find a news story on this online, so I have to treat it as a hypothetical, but this situation is, for me, the textbook argument for the death penalty.

And forget the needle. A person like this should be drawn and quartered.

It would be a shame if society's laws failed us to the point that a father would come to believe that he needed to exact justice for his daughter's rape and murder.

[Claeren]

Originally posted by Faid1@Sep 18 2005, 10:14 AM
You're going to have to back this one up

I work for the health region. It is disgusting what is out there....


Try having every orifice of your body violently penetrated by a random stranger to the point that many can never be used again and every shinguard you take for the rest of your life is into a bag on your hip, and then beaten to near death and left to die... saved but only to live a life with permanent head injuries, a non-functioning body, and a lot of 'what ifs'... as a man you might be too naive to see it but it happens all the time. The case i am refering to actually just happened in Alberta ~2 months ago....

Which would you rather, death or that? Looking into the faces of your mother or father after? Siblings and/or significant others? That or having been blessed with a quick death? Tough and disgusting choice but many would chose death....


Claeren.

[Patek23]

Originally posted by Snakeeye@Sep 18 2005, 11:02 AM
I cant find a news story on this online, so I have to treat it as a hypothetical, but this situation is, for me, the textbook argument for the death penalty.

I saw it on CNN Headline News on Friday, the actual story was old, the story was that he had pleaded not guilty after confessing but they did a sort of recap on what he had done. I'll see if I can find the link to both stories.


EDIT

Here is one

Pleads Not Guilty

Unless this has happened twice, I think I was wrong about the daughter thing, but I would have sworn they said it was his daughter that had been raped and killed. Unless I'm reading this story wrong.

[CaramonLS]

Originally posted by Claeren@Sep 18 2005, 06:28 PM
I work for the health region. It is disgusting what is out there....


Try having every orifice of your body violently penetrated by a random stranger to the point that many can never be used again and every shinguard you take for the rest of your life is into a bag on your hip, and then beaten to near death and left to die... saved but only to live a life with permanent head injuries, a non-functioning body, and a lot of 'what ifs'... as a man you might be too naive to see it but it happens all the time. The case i am refering to actually just happened in Alberta ~2 months ago....

Which would you rather, death or that? Looking into the faces of your mother or father after? Siblings and/or significant others? That or having been blessed with a quick death? Tough and disgusting choice but many would chose death....


Claeren.

Claeren is right on here.

It is horrifying what happens to these people, colostomy/urine bags strapped to their hip for the rest of their lives, unable to use their organs, absolutely destoryed mentally and physically for the rest of their lives.

[RougeUnderoos]

I don't want to come across as a bleeding heart liberal, but I'd prefer justice was not meted out by drinking/drugging, mentally unstable people.

What if this guy knocked on the wrong door?

He's a murderer, plain and simple.

There has been an interesting story developing in the papers over the past week or so.

Some scumbag in Ontario raped and murdered his 4 year old niece. The maggot should have been executed in the most painful way possible 13 years ago when they found him guilty but instead he's been loafing his way through the Country Club known as a federal prison, probably reading books paid for by my tax dollars.

Anyhow, it comes out this week that the girl died of natural causes and was never raped.

But he should be dead. Right?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...uery=imprisoned

[calculoso]

It took them 13 years to find out that the 4 year old girl was never raped??

I'm no doctor, but shouldn't that be pretty easy?

[monkeyman]

Originally posted by Agamemnon@Sep 18 2005, 09:04 AM
There's no excuse for murder either. That's why each example (rape and murder) will be looked at as a 'crime', instead of the latter as 'justified revenge'. Individuals do not have the right in 'civilized' societies to exact personal retribution. Otherwise we'd live in Flame of Liberty's 'state-that-is-not-a-state'.

I'm always mystified when one person kills another, and a dozen people jump on the board to say 'good'. Sheesh, this is life and death stuff here. This is a horrible event, there is no good here.

'Still illegal'...? You envision a day when personal murderous retribution is not? I'd better keep my nose clean...

Good, i'm glad he's dead! I hope he rots in hell!

[Winsor_Pilates]

If I was in that situation, I would want to kill the guy too. Much rather see the rapist/murderer killed, then have him be able to do it again to other innocent people.

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos
He's a murderer, plain and simple.

I disagree. Murder is never plain and simple. Every case has different variables surrounding it and should be viewed as such. I know the legal system, can't really let the father get away with this, because it sets a dangerous precedent, but I still feel sorry for him.

Hyothetical Situation: The father had came apon the other man as he was raping/murdering his daughter. He then killed him there to save his daughter. Still plain and simple, or self defense?

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally posted by Winsor_Pilates+Sep 18 2005, 04:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Winsor_Pilates @ Sep 18 2005, 04:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If I was in that situation, I would want to kill the guy too. Much rather see the rapist/murderer killed, then have him be able to do it again to other innocent people.

<!--QuoteBegin-RougeUnderoos
He's a murderer, plain and simple.

I disagree. Murder is never plain and simple. Every case has different variables surrounding it and should be viewed as such. I know the legal system, can't really let the father get away with this, because it sets a dangerous precedent, but I still feel sorry for him.

Hyothetical Situation: The father had came apon the other man as he was raping/murdering his daughter. He then killed him there to save his daughter. Still plain and simple, or self defense? [/b][/quote]
Self defense. At that point he has the chance to save his daughter and his life is in danger. Completely different situation.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by Winsor_Pilates+Sep 18 2005, 05:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Winsor_Pilates @ Sep 18 2005, 05:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If I was in that situation, I would want to kill the guy too. Much rather see the rapist/murderer killed, then have him be able to do it again to other innocent people.

<!--QuoteBegin-RougeUnderoos
He's a murderer, plain and simple.

I disagree. Murder is never plain and simple. Every case has different variables surrounding it and should be viewed as such. I know the legal system, can't really let the father get away with this, because it sets a dangerous precedent, but I still feel sorry for him.

Hyothetical Situation: The father had came apon the other man as he was raping/murdering his daughter. He then killed him there to save his daughter. Still plain and simple, or self defense? [/b][/quote]
Okay what exactly are we talking about here? The guy unstable guy who had a few drinks and decided to go shoot a couple of sex offenders, or the mysterious and unknown vigilante who wacked his child's killer?

The guy I'm talking about is the guy that knocked on the door of a couple sex offenders and shot them.

As for your little scenario about some dude who "came across someone killing his daughter", that's pretty easy -- you kill that guy. It's kind of irrelevant to the discussion though, isn't it?

[Vulcan]

I could see families of victims in Canada wanting to take justice into their own hands as the courts are literally letting people get away with murder with their lenient sentencing.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally posted by Agamemnon@Sep 18 2005, 11:04 AM
There's no excuse for murder either. That's why each example (rape and murder) will be looked at as a 'crime', instead of the latter as 'justified revenge'. Individuals do not have the right in 'civilized' societies to exact personal retribution. Otherwise we'd live in Flame of Liberty's 'state-that-is-not-a-state'.

I'm always mystified when one person kills another, and a dozen people jump on the board to say 'good'. Sheesh, this is life and death stuff here. This is a horrible event, there is no good here.

'Still illegal'...? You envision a day when personal murderous retribution is not? I'd better keep my nose clean...

You don't have kids, do you?

[Looger]

forget rationalizing this with cold calculation, that's not what this is aboot.

messing with peoples' children awakes something deep and dark inside, from the places no-one talks aboot.

as long as crimes against children happen there will ALWAYS be hot-blooded reprisals, kinda like how with imperialism there is ALWAYS terrorism.

always, always, always. bank on it, ship it, receive it. but do not deny it.

[Frank the Tank]

Originally posted by Looger@Sep 19 2005, 08:14 AM
forget rationalizing this with cold calculation, that's not what this is aboot.

messing with peoples' children awakes something deep and dark inside, from the places no-one talks aboot.

as long as crimes against children happen there will ALWAYS be hot-blooded reprisals, kinda like how with imperialism there is ALWAYS terrorism.

always, always, always. bank on it, ship it, receive it. but do not deny it.

I am stunned at how easy it would be for me to kill someone who hurt/molested/killed my son. I would take great joy in it, in fact.