Devin Setoguchi

[bluck]

So far during pre season he has looked terrible. I'm guessing he makes the opening roaster due to his one way contract but I can't help but feeling he should play in the AHL based on his play so far. Don't get me wrong I know it's only pre season but in all honesty I would rather that roster spot go to a prospect such a Bennett or Granlund. What are your thoughts CP?

[DeluxeMoustache]

It's not pre season to the point of icing a full roster of prospective near term NHLers yet. He hasn't impressed terribly but his resume and contract may buy him some good will and time. The guy has at least proven capable of what many prospects hope to even sniff. Patience

[DeluxeMoustache]

Also for Bennett and Gaudreau, the challenge they have not faced is 82 games against the best competition in the world. Skills aside, that is a tall order. The hallmark of an NHLer is the ability to perform night in and night out

[Huntingwhale]

I don't think I've ever seen a player as scrutinized in the preseason as Setogutchi.

[FlameZilla]

Setoguchi is on the books for $750,000. What do you expect from him?

Only McGrattan & Byron earn less. Safe to say we should have similar expectations of Devin as we do of them. Anything more is a bonus.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I don't think I've ever seen a player as scrutinized in the preseason as Setogutchi.

It's folks that hated the signing just looking for something to complain about.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

It's folks that hated the signing just looking for something to complain about.

Not just them. Lots of people who are also impatient to see the insertion of the Flames young talent into the lineup are using this signing to leverage their opinion that management is not handling prospect development correctly.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

It's folks that hated the signing just looking for something to complain about.

That's not true. I liked the signing and still do. What I don't like is the fact that he's looked like hot garbage and outplayed by a lot of the young guys. The team has said they will pick the best and send the worst packing. If the team were going to follow through on that promise Setoguchi would have been cut in the first wave. If I had to chose between Setoguchi or Agostino, Agostino is still here. Heck, I thought Hathaway showed more at this point. I understand the idea of giving players time to get their legs under them, but when it conflicts with the 'meritocracy' approach you preach, then there is a problem. We'll see how the rest of camp plays out, but so far Setoguchi has not been good and should have been cut based on performance.

[Textcritic]

As if on cue ...

Originally Posted by New Era

That's not true. I liked the signing and still do. What I don't like is the fact that he's looked like hot garbage and outplayed by a lot of the young guys. The team has said they will pick the best and send the worst packing.

Did anyone from the coaches and management actually say precisely this? I seem to recall some innuendo that this would occur in the form of "the kids will all be given a chance," and such. But I also remember a lot more fairly emphatic declarations by Treliving that the team WOULD NOT rush prospects onto the team, and that they WOULD take their time to develop them.

Originally Posted by New Era

I understand the idea of giving players time to get their legs under them, but when it conflicts with the 'meritocracy' approach you preach, then there is a problem...

No, there really isn't, since "meritocracy" is a word that is used to communicate something to the general public, but almost certainly functions differently in the hockey world because of such things as a salary cap, the various tiers of contracts, levels of individual players' experience, strength, the range of development, etc. If prospects are better served by spending more time (even if it is just a little more time) in the minors or back in Juniour, then I would expect this to be the team's top priority.

Originally Posted by New Era

We'll see how the rest of camp plays out, but so far Setoguchi has not been good and should have been cut based on performance.

This early?! No chance. The team should use the first handful of pre-season games for assessing their prospects, and to give veterans a chance to work up to playing speed. I expect that players like Setoguchi and Bolig understand this much better than you or I do, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if their own underwhelming performances in camp so far have a lot to do with their pace of adjustment.

By the second or third week of the season if Setoguchi is still under performing, THEN is the time to be making statements about his demotion.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Setoguchi is on the books for $750,000. What do you expect from him?

Only McGrattan & Byron earn less. Safe to say we should have similar expectations of Devin as we do of them. Anything more is a bonus.

I expect him to score goals? McGrattan obviously plays a different role. Setoguchi was signed to score goals. He is useless when he isn't scoring goals. At least Byron works hard.

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

It's folks that hated the signing just looking for something to complain about.

The signing didn't make a whole of sense in the first place given that the team just established an identity as a hardworking team. Setoguchi was the opposite of that. But he does have goal scoring talent. But when he's not scoring he's garbage. He should not be given a free pass. Not with the talented youngsters we have. Setoguchi is never going to reach his potential without a drastic change in his work ethic and my bet is that it's not going to happen.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FAN

...The signing didn't make a whole of sense in the first place given that the team just established an identity as a hardworking team. Setoguchi was the opposite of that. But he does have goal scoring talent. But when he's not scoring he's garbage. He should not be given a free pass. Not with the talented youngsters we have. Setoguchi is never going to reach his potential without a drastic change in his work ethic and my bet is that it's not going to happen.

I don't think he is given a free pass, and I don't know how you can presume as much based on only one full week of training camp.

There is a very real possibility that Setoguchi stays with the Flames in place of some of the Flames talented prospects despite the fact that they may outplay him (at least from our perspective), but this is because there is more than just one dynamic at work here. Setoguchi is insurance. Insurance that gives the Flames latitude to do what is best for the development of their prospects. If they feel even slightly uncomfortable about starting Bennett or Agostino or Arnold in the NHL; if they feel better about sending most of the kids to play in the AHL, then Setoguchi makes that all the more possible.

[killer_carlson]

nm

[kyuss275]

There are spots on the team ( regular playing time), and then there are spots on the team ( pressbox). If Setoguchi keeps playing the way he does he will at best be a 13th forward. That's no place for Bennett , Sven, Johnny hockey, ect.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by New Era

That's not true. I liked the signing and still do. What I don't like is the fact that he's looked like hot garbage and outplayed by a lot of the young guys. The team has said they will pick the best and send the worst packing. If the team were going to follow through on that promise Setoguchi would have been cut in the first wave. If I had to chose between Setoguchi or Agostino, Agostino is still here. Heck, I thought Hathaway showed more at this point. I understand the idea of giving players time to get their legs under them, but when it conflicts with the 'meritocracy' approach you preach, then there is a problem. We'll see how the rest of camp plays out, but so far Setoguchi has not been good and should have been cut based on performance.

The team has said no such thing. Treliving has said something to the effect of he wants young players that are ready to contribute, not just players that don't look out of place.

You also can't say this player was better than that player so he shouldn't make the team. Different players have different roles, abilities and positions. It is also better to have a veteran sitting in the pressbox than a rookie as well. You also have to consider that rookies have been playing 2 weeks longer than the vets so they are closer to mid-season form.

When the season comes if Setoguchi isn't playing well enough to be in the lineup, he won't. He will be in the pressbox if he is playing poorly. But given his history of production in the league and the fact that he is clearly working hard, it would be irresponsible for the Flames not to give him an opportunity. Because unlike the prospects he has proven he can score at a 20 goal pace in the NHL.

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

The team has said no such thing.

Just another CP self-perpetuating non-truth.

I need to find a quote what management has actually said...

[FFR]

I think that Setoguchi has gotten better every game he has played. Sure, he's made some bone-headed plays but so have Monahan, Glencross and Brodie. He definitely needs to work on some things (like skating hard every shift) but he's had flashes of brilliance.

I think you have to remember two things - the rookies that are 'outplaying' him have had a camp, including games, already, and Setoguchi needs to learn Calgary's systems. It doesn't happen overnight and is what training camp exists for.

As others have said - if he continues to struggle into the first few weeks of the regular season, then the team would need to address it.

[bluloc]

In the few games ive seen out of him, he hasn't been that bad. He'll get better as the season goes on I'm sure.

[ricardodw]

Why in the world do people think that Setogouchi will improve over time.

He has just come off a complete season where he was the biggest disappointment on the Jets..... another non-playoff team. The Jets however actually thought they had a chance for the playoffs.

Originally Posted by FAN

The signing didn't make a whole of sense in the first place given that the team just established an identity as a hardworking team. Setoguchi was the opposite of that. But he does have goal scoring talent. But when he's not scoring he's garbage. He should not be given a free pass. Not with the talented youngsters we have. Setoguchi is never going to reach his potential without a drastic change in his work ethic and my bet is that it's not going to happen.

Setogouchi not scoring would be a minor upgrade on Stempniak not scoring.

I think that the fan base saw a much better Flame team at the end of last year with Hankowski/Knight/Agositino/ Van B replacing Stempniak that their is an expectation and pallitable dread that Setoguchi just slides into the Stempniak role.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by FAN

I expect him to score goals? McGrattan obviously plays a different role. Setoguchi was signed to score goals. He is useless when he isn't scoring goals. At least Byron works hard.

Name a "goal scorer" who is paid as little as Setoguchi.


The only reason why we were able to acquire the player so cheaply is that his production has dropped off the face of the planet. People are going to have to lower their expectations and hope that the guy picks up the pieces of his shattered career at some point in the regular season.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Just another CP self-perpetuating non-truth.



I need to find a quote what management has actually said...

The McKenzie interview was good but TSN took it down