Flames Player Lists: Core Pieces, Support Pieces & Expendable

[FBI]

As requested by Bingo, moved this to a new thread. Here's my take on our untouchables and not so untouchables:

Instead we could say who our list of untouchables are:
- Gaudreau
- Monahan
- Bennett
- Giordano
- Brodie
- Poirier

Who I would prefer to keep but would move if involved in great return:
- Colborne
- Backlund
- Baertschi
- Russell
- Hudler
- Bouma
- Granlund
- Jooris

Who we don't mind being moved at all:
- Wideman
- Glencross
- Byron
- Jones
- Stajan
- Raymond
- Bollig
- Smid
- Engelland
- Diaz

Didn't think about goalies yet just because I don't really know who is better yet. I'd kinda keep them both in the middle category but I'm also interested in what Ortio can do as well so I'm a little stuck on those.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Was going to mention in the other thread, that this is a great list. For me, I'd put these three players in a group between the top and the second, meaning I'd still trade them but feel that to the Flames they are more valuable than the others in group 2 so I'd want a better return:

Colborne - young prospect who seems to be continuously improving, can play multiple positions and unlike most of our prospects, has some size.

Hudler - great with Johnny hockey

Wideman - realize he's in your 3rd group, but our d depth is so bad I think we'd really miss him.

And for bonus:

Ferland - again, one our few prospects with size that seems like he can also play.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I only have 4 untouchables.

Monahan
Gaudreau
Brodie
Bennett

If you want to throw a ridiculous offer at Giordano/Poirier, whoever, so be it.

[Erick Estrada]

Not sure why fans are so obsessed with trading players. The team is performing above expectations and part of that has to do with the right chemistry. This team isn't a couple of players away from being a a cup contender so it's best to keep the chemistry and cultivate a culture of playing hard than reshuffling the deck chairs. There just aren't blockbuster deals anymore so the only reason I would want to see players traded out if it's to make room for emerging young players. Flames don't need to acquire other teams overpaid or under performing players and no teams are going to give Flames their quality prospect for our junk. You want to make a trade for a quality player it has to include a player on the "untouchable" list.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I only have 4 untouchables.

Monahan
Gaudreau
Brodie
Bennett

If you want to throw a ridiculous offer at Giordano/Poirier, whoever, so be it.

Thats madness.

If anything the Flames have to keep more people than they need to move.

Realistically we only need/want to move older and more expensive players so that younger, cheaper, hungrier and better players get roster spots.

Other than that we should be keeping people around.

[Eric Vail]

The general consensus around here is that Iginla should have been traded earlier while his value was high.

The current general consensus sounds like Giordano is considered an untouchable and cannot be traded.

Am I misinformed on these two statements?
Why the difference?

[Timbo]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

The general consensus around here is that Iginla should have been traded earlier while his value was high.

The current general consensus sounds like Giordano is considered an untouchable and cannot be traded.

Am I misinformed on these two statements?
Why the difference?

Giordano is a big part,if not the prime guiding part of the culture change.
That in my mind is the difference.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Locke

Thats madness.

If anything the Flames have to keep more people than they need to move.

Realistically we only need/want to move older and more expensive players so that younger, cheaper, hungrier and better players get roster spots.

Other than that we should be keeping people around.

I hope the other teams only need/want older expensive players and will give us younger, cheaper, hungrier, and better players to get them! This is gonna be *so* easy!!

[Grimbl420]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

The general consensus around here is that Iginla should have been traded earlier while his value was high.

The current general consensus sounds like Giordano is considered an untouchable and cannot be traded.

Am I misinformed on these two statements?

Why the difference?

Gio is going to be a Norris candidate this year baring an injury. That alone makes him untouchable.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

The general consensus around here is that Iginla should have been traded earlier while his value was high.

The current general consensus sounds like Giordano is considered an untouchable and cannot be traded.

Am I misinformed on these two statements?
Why the difference?

The expectations and performance of the team is in a completely different place.

With Iginla the team was trying to compete but was well past its best-before date, it was time to move salary and acquire assets.

With Giordano the team is in a place where they can realistically be competing for a playoff spot even this season and almost certainly next season.

With Iggy the team was old and on the downswing and with Gio the team is young and on the upswing. Complete Polar opposites, hence opposite opinions and expectations.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Locke

Thats madness.

If anything the Flames have to keep more people than they need to move.

Realistically we only need/want to move older and more expensive players so that younger, cheaper, hungrier and better players get roster spots.

Other than that we should be keeping people around.

I think the word "untouchable" is being thrown around too loosely around here. What I think when I hear the word untouchable is you don't move that player for anything. If a team wanted to ask about Giordano, and they offered the world for him, I'm not going to reply "he's an untouchable."

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

I hope the other teams only need/want older expensive players and will give us younger, cheaper, hungrier, and better players to get them! This is gonna be *so* easy!!

Haha! I should clarify:

I meant that we already have those younger, cheaper, hungrier and better players, we simply need to make room for them on the roster in Calgary rather than Adirondack.

[David Struch]

Gaudreau – Bennett - Poirier
Granlund - Monahan – Baertschi
Klimchuck – Jankowski – Jooris
Ferland - Arnold – Smith

Giordano - Brodie
Rafikov - Wotherspoon
Culkin - Sieloff

Gillies
McDonald

[Locke]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I think the word "untouchable" is being thrown around too loosely around here. What I think when I hear the word untouchable is you don't move that player for anything. If a team wanted to ask about Giordano, and they offered the world for him, I'm not going to reply "he's an untouchable."

And with that I agree, but you dont see those 'break-the-bank' type trades very often anymore. So yeah, if someone makes you an offer you cant refuse then you dont refuse it, but thats highly unlikely.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Gaudreau – Bennett - Poirier
Granlund - Monahan – Baertschi
Klimchuck – Jankowski – Jooris
Ferland - Arnold – Smith

Giordano - Brodie
Rafikov - Wotherspoon
Culkin - Sieloff

Gillies
McDonald

Really? We have an untouchable lineup? I rest my case.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I think the word "untouchable" is being thrown around too loosely around here. What I think when I hear the word untouchable is you don't move that player for anything. If a team wanted to ask about Giordano, and they offered the world for him, I'm not going to reply "he's an untouchable."

Conceptually, of course any player is available if some team makes a lopsided proposal that is clearly in our favor and long term interests.

Consider it more along the lines of which players you would like in the core, long term if it helps you.

[Bingo]

I like the definition "core pieces", "support pieces", and "expendable"

Makes it less about who you can and can't trade and more about who you see the team being built around.

They need to decide what goalie is in that core group, and whether or not Poirier belongs in that group. I think its safe to assume Bennett and don't have a problem with that.

I like Russell, but I don't think the core should have more than 2 dmen.

Ideally you have two centers, 2 dmen, 2 wingers and a goaltender in a core I'd suggest.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

I'm all for valuing players as a fun exercise, but similar to the prospect rankings from earlier this year, some players get mythical status simply due to a lack of evidence.

It's very hard for me to say Bennett and Poirier are untouchable. Neither has played a game in the NHL, so why take them off the table in a potential transaction? The Sven experience shows that there is no reason to rush the canonization of prospects.

[FBI]

Answering some responses from the other thread:

Originally Posted by AcGold

Keep Wideman, Russell and Diaz. The rest I agree.

I could see a case for Russell in the 1a area but curious as to why you think we should keep Diaz? Do you see a mini Russell in him or something?

[dammage79]

Instead we could say who our list of untouchables are:
- Gaudreau
- Monahan
- Bennett
- Giordano
- Brodie
- Hudler
- Granlund (Let's not forget the fact this is his 2nd pro season and he's already established himself as an NHL'er in a top 9 capacity. Still improving and hasn't hit his plateau yet)

Who I would prefer to keep but would move if involved in great return:
Tier 1 (Overpayment required or at the very least, an upgrade on)
- Colborne
- Backlund
- Russell
- Wideman
Tier 2 (decent return, won't cry)
- Bouma
- Raymond
- Jooris

Who I don't mind being moved at all:
- Glencross
- Byron
- Jones
- Stajan
- Sven
- Bollig
- Smid
- Engelland
- Diaz
As for Goaltending, I'm in the keep Hiller camp. I think the Flames need to figure out what direction they want to go in terms of Ramo and Ortio. Move one or the other of those two or don't do a thing with them until the offseason, even then, I'd go with Ortio as the number two and move Ramo. I certainly do not think Ramo is no good nor do I hate him or dislike him. I just think Hiller is a more established placeholder until Ortio/Gillies are ready to take over. And then I am calling Gillies as the guy. He's developing rather splendidly.


Addendum: Rookies who have not played NHL games or a very minute amount I do not think can be considered in this list. Save for Bennett, he's a keeper no matter what.