Northwestern University football players given right to form union

[Resolute 14]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...lrb-rules.html

If this survives NU's appeal, this is going to completely destroy the NCAA as we know it, I think. In some respects, that wouldn't be a bad thing. It would be really interesting to see what the NCAA 2.0 would look like in the aftermath.

OTOH, it would be kind of funny if the NCAA responded by ruling all of NU's players to be professionals and therefore ruling them ineligible. Kind of a nuclear response that I doubt would survive a legal challenge.

[DiracSpike]

Leave it to the worst football program in the B1G to pull this crap. The best part is where the guy complains about the time commitment to football keeping him out of pre med. the answer to all these NCAA complaints is simple. If you think schools are stealing your time or taking advantage of you....DON'T PLAY! I'll never understand this.

[ricoFlame]

Yeah...it's not the program, it's the players...big difference. The program is appealing.

[troutman]

Workers of the World, Unite!

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Leave it to the worst football program in the B1G to pull this crap. The best part is where the guy complains about the time commitment to football keeping him out of pre med. the answer to all these NCAA complaints is simple. If you think schools are stealing your time or taking advantage of you....DON'T PLAY! I'll never understand this.

It's also the best academic school in the B1G and one of the best academic schools in the country, so their players actually want to, you know, get an education too.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

It's also the best academic school in the B1G and one of the best academic schools in the country, so their players actually want to, you know, get an education too.

Absolutely it is, Northwestern is a great great school and it's fair to say anyone enrolled there is fairly intelligent. Again, if the players feel like football is impacting their education then they should stop playing. The NCAA does cap the amount of time that players have to dedicate to their sports as well, but if it's still too much then just quit and focus on school.

[Resolute 14]

That's easy to say, however they would lose their scholarship in the process, and for some, an NFL career to go with it. It's not really a black and white issue.

[Pagal4321]

I'm sorry but the NCAA and every school with an athletic program make money hand over fist on an annual basis. All this will do is allocate a piece of the pie to the actual players, something that I think is far overdue.

Or am I missing some kind of bigger picture here?

[CaptainCrunch]

When we talk about players not getting paid everyone ignores the full ride scholarships that they receive that are probably worth close to 6 figures a year, that include room and board and books and a bunch of other things.

Basically the players are exchanging a free education that leaves other kids in the 6 figures in debt.

whether they deny it or not the players are getting compensation.

You could add on that what the players should be getting is a per diem to cover other education related expenses.

But I don't think that teams should be paying players cash to pay because it would basically cause a bidding war that smaller schools would lose every time.

Yeah Coach I wanted to go to North Western, but you only offered me $50,000 a year. Pen State offered me triple that.

[Pagal4321]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yeah Coach I wanted to go to North Western, but you only offered me $50,000 a year. Pen State offered me triple that.

And that's different than now? Powerhouse programs get most of the 5-star recruits as it stands.

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

I'm sorry but the NCAA and every school with an athletic program make money hand over fist on an annual basis. All this will do is allocate a piece of the pie to the actual players, something that I think is far overdue.

Or am I missing some kind of bigger picture here?

Most athletic programs actually lose money and need to be subsidized by the schools themselves. The football program may make money, but it's also helping to pay for wrestling, tennis, womens hockey, etc.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

I'm sorry but the NCAA and every school with an athletic program make money hand over fist on an annual basis. All this will do is allocate a piece of the pie to the actual players, something that I think is far overdue.

Or am I missing some kind of bigger picture here?

I can see a lot of potential fallout if the entirety of the NCAA were to go the way of professional sports. Some good, some bad. Mostly due to the costs of paying players. Do salaries replace scholarships? Are the other sports that the big football and basketball (especially) pay for allowed to wither and die? How many schools would be stupid enough to take even more from educational funding to funnel into sports programs? The competitive imbalance in NCAA sports would be made worse; smaller schools would have no hope of competing at D-1. OTOH, it would probably also eliminate the under-the-table financial cheating that schools, boosters and agents already do on a wide scale and bring it all above board.

It would have an impact up here too. This would professionalize the NCAA, making its own draconian rules about professionalism obsolete. They would need a new argument to bar major junior hockey players, or there would be free reign to move between the CHL and the NCAA. And how would that work? Especially since both side would end up trying to enforce player contracts. Not to mention that it would take away one of Junior A's big selling points.

What happens when college athletes go on strike - or the schools lock them out? How would the rules work between public and private schools? (This ruling currently applies only to private schools, but the kids at places like Penn State are going to want the same rights.)

A great many unknown questions right now. From a purely academic standpoint, this could be very interesting.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

Most athletic programs actually lose money and need to be subsidized by the schools themselves. The football program may make money, but it's also helping to pay for wrestling, tennis, womens hockey, etc.

I think NCAA rules dictate there has to be the same number of athletic scholarships handed out to women as there are men at the school too.

But yeah, the athletic programs do make money - considering football coaches and athletic directors are 2 of the highest paid public officials in the state, in almost every state in America.

[Pagal4321]

Hey, I'm just trying to play Devils Advocate here, and not the poster Devils Advocate, to promote conversation.

It will be interesting to see how this changes the whole NCAA system, if it holds up against the appeal. But any changes forced upon the NCAA can't be a bad thing, as the entire system is fataed up right now.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I think NCAA rules dictate there has to be the same number of athletic scholarships handed out to women as there are men at the school too.

American law, actually. Title IX.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

When we talk about players not getting paid everyone ignores the full ride scholarships that they receive that are probably worth close to 6 figures a year, that include room and board and books and a bunch of other things.

Basically the players are exchanging a free education that leaves other kids in the 6 figures in debt.

whether they deny it or not the players are getting compensation.

You could add on that what the players should be getting is a per diem to cover other education related expenses.

But I don't think that teams should be paying players cash to pay because it would basically cause a bidding war that smaller schools would lose every time.

Yeah Coach I wanted to go to North Western, but you only offered me $50,000 a year. Pen State offered me triple that.

While such a system could certainly result from this ruling, at this point, the players from Northwestern are not seeking additional direct cash compensation for their play ("pay for play"). In fact, they have directly denied seeking such compensation.

They are currently seeking things like funding for graduate studies and to help former players graduate, medical insurance for after their collegiate careers end, and other health and safety gains such as independent concussion experts on the sidelines during play.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

I'm sorry but the NCAA and every school with an athletic program make money hand over fist on an annual basis. All this will do is allocate a piece of the pie to the actual players, something that I think is far overdue.

Or am I missing some kind of bigger picture here?

Wrong, only 5-6 schools make money on their athletics... Football brings in a ton but also gives many of those kids a better option than prison or geave

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I think NCAA rules dictate there has to be the same number of athletic scholarships handed out to women as there are men at the school too.

But yeah, the athletic programs do make money - considering football coaches and athletic directors are 2 of the highest paid public officials in the state, in almost every state in America.

Most of the coaches salary is through endowment deals tied into the contract.

[nik-]

If you bring multiple millions to a school, you deserve more than a scholarship. At absolute minimum if they're selling your jersey, you deserve a cut of that.

[moon]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Wrong, only 5-6 schools make money on their athletics... Football brings in a ton but also gives many of those kids a better option than prison or geave

I heard 20 the other day (not sure where or how reliable may have been on PTI or PTS) but either way the number of schools that make money is very small considering how many athletic programs there are out there.

I think any sort of pay to play program likely ends the NCAA and at that point you are better off going to a hockey/baseball minor/league junior professional model and have private groups run these things as the amount of issues that would arise from schools doing it would create a ton of problems.