Craig Conroy on The Fan and the Minor League System - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

BigFlameDog · 05-31-2013, 07:24 AM

An extension of the season ticket holder meeting but I was thinking it might make for an interesting discussion.

I am talking about the decision to change the systems in Abby to the same as the big club. Conroy expanded on this yesterday on the Big Show by citing the example of the Senators doing everything the same from practice set up and prep to meetings etc.

To me this seems like it should be a complete no brainer if a team isn't sharing a minor league club, it sounded like only a handful of clubs actually do it. I am not engaged when it comes to minor league workings so I may be missing something in how these things play out.

So am I missing something as to why this hasn't been happening for the last 8 or so years since the Flames went solo? Why don't all the teams do it this way? Is it simply a matter of not having complete control and only agreements with the minor league teams?

Canada 02 · 05-31-2013, 07:46 AM

Ryan McGill ran the same system in Omaha and QC as Sutter and Co. Weird that Ward runs things different, or is allowed to run things different than the big club

calgARI · 05-31-2013, 08:12 AM

Any organization worth its salt approaches the minor league affiliate in this way. It's great that they are going in this direction but I continue to be baffled at what goes on this organization.

Wolven · 05-31-2013, 08:17 AM

I remember that this was brought up last year and Ward said something along the lines of "you can't run the same system with such vastly different players". Basically he was refering to how the Heat was much more of a grinding team with few skilled players, whereas the Flames had the skill to run a different system.

Ideally you want both the Flames and Heat to use the exact same system, but if the Flames system isn't working for the Heat I am find with them using whatever system helps them win games and develop winning players.

FlamesAddiction · 05-31-2013, 08:24 AM

This is why a new GM really needs to just clean hous and hire their own coaches at every level.

Badgers Nose · 05-31-2013, 08:33 AM

maybe it was something ward negotiated.

considering how good everyone says he is (I agree) - strange they would come out and say this is changing

maybe Ward is leaving?

ma-skis.com · 05-31-2013, 08:40 AM

I am thinking that if they want the minor league affiliate to be successful as well, they would need to allow that coach to coach the players to their own strengths in games.

Perhaps they can streamline practice routines, prep, but if you want the minor league team to be successful as well, forcing them to play a style not suited to the players seems detrimental.

It could be that this is a new conversation this year since the players on the big club and small club are going to be much more closely linked with guys being called up and down and earning more ice time more often verses the last few years, we would see one or two guys get called up to essentially play on the 4th line and grind out some minutes.

BigFlameDog · 05-31-2013, 08:43 AM

Good points, maybe it is the same old tipping point story, the ahl team needs to draw fans and if the organizations pipeline is lacking they need to run a different system to win.

Chicken and egg? Need to get some players before both teams can somewhat successfully run the same system.

In the Flames case, they are sounding willing to rip the band aid and just start it now when they still could use a few player's.

Ari, I could be wrong but I got the impression from Conroy's conversation that Calgary was far from the only team doing it this way...his point about Ottawa was that they started a few years back when they went retool.

Again, I don't keep on top of the minor league stuff, other than a little bit with the Heat.

Vulcan · 05-31-2013, 08:54 AM

I'm pretty sure Ward ran the same system as Brent in previous years. It was even brought up as to how well the farm players fitted in with the big team. Last year was the first year that the Heat ran a different system. I thought it was crazy and it seems odd that it's now brought up as a new idea. It just adds to my opinion that it's amateur hour at the Flames front office.

Street Pharmacist · 05-31-2013, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I'm pretty sure Ward ran the same system as Brent in previous years. It was even brought up as to how well the farm players fitted in with the big team. Last year was the first year that the Heat ran a different system. I thought it was crazy and it seems odd that it's now brought up as a new idea. It just adds to my opinion that it's amateur hour at the Flames front office.

I don't know. Does it really make sense to run everything the same? Developing player requires putting them in certain circumstances and trying different things than what you would at the nhl level, doesn't it? Also, which 8 NHL teams do it? Does it correlate with success? Are 21 other teams also "amateur hour"?

JiriHrdina · 05-31-2013, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

maybe it was something ward negotiated.

considering how good everyone says he is (I agree) - strange they would come out and say this is changing

maybe Ward is leaving?

I think in one of the fan forums it was confirmed that Ward has been retained for at least next season.

Phanuthier · 05-31-2013, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I'm pretty sure Ward ran the same system as Brent in previous years. It was even brought up as to how well the farm players fitted in with the big team. Last year was the first year that the Heat ran a different system. I thought it was crazy and it seems odd that it's now brought up as a new idea. It just adds to my opinion that it's amateur hour at the Flames front office.

This is how i remember it as well... Bob Hartley wanted to run a system of more offense and freedom, vs Ward has more structure.

moon · 05-31-2013, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Developing player requires putting them in certain circumstances and trying different things than what you would at the nhl level, doesn't it?

That doesn't seem like a good way to develop players at all.

Not sure who the other teams are but based on talk/seeing the way young guys enter the team and the fact that Maclean spent so much time there I would guess that Detroit is a team that does things that way.

I don't think it should really be that hard. It isn't like we are talking about football offenses here where one team has Moon running a run and shoot offense while the minor team has guys for a wishbone offense. Running a similar system to the NHL team should be fairly straightforward nowadays.

King Theo · 05-31-2013, 11:20 AM

The farm team 1st goal is to develop players. Both teams should run a system the is very close to each other. That way your farm players are ready to step in when needed.

Flash Walken · 05-31-2013, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

This is how i remember it as well... Bob Hartley wanted to run a system of more offense and freedom, vs Ward has more structure.

Brent and Ward coach for wins.

Hartley is 'exciting'.

Obvious incongruence between the two.

Maybe the franchise should orient itself more to what Ward is doing than what Hartley is, but that would mean a massive admission of culpability.

Doesn't matter though, if it weren't for edmonton, this would be the most dysfunctional management team in the league.

Flash Walken · 05-31-2013, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

That doesn't seem like a good way to develop players at all.

Not sure who the other teams are but based on talk/seeing the way young guys enter the team and the fact that Maclean spent so much time there I would guess that Detroit is a team that does things that way.

I don't think it should really be that hard. It isn't like we are talking about football offenses here where one team has Moon running a run and shoot offense while the minor team has guys for a wishbone offense. Running a similar system to the NHL team should be fairly straightforward nowadays.

With their fancy pucks system etc. it should be easier than ever before.

Teams have been doing this for 30 years. It's not a novel or unique approach.

I'm of the belief it's just another log on the fire burning brightly. How big does this inferno of puzzling to inept decisions have to get before owners and vocal fans see the smoke signal?

Phanuthier · 05-31-2013, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Brent and Ward coach for wins.

Hartley is 'exciting'.

Obvious incongruence between the two.

Maybe the franchise should orient itself more to what Ward is doing than what Hartley is, but that would mean a massive admission of culpability.

Doesn't matter though, if it weren't for edmonton, this would be the most dysfunctional management team in the league.

Blessing in disguise, as since Brent's system stopped covering up the warts on this team, Feaster was forced to move on from Iginla/Bouw and rebuild... this is the most hopeful I've been of this team in years. (Still nostalgic seeing Iginla and Regehr play, but it was inevitable).

Enoch Root · 05-31-2013, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Brent and Ward coach for wins.

Hartley is 'exciting'.

Obvious incongruence between the two.

Maybe the franchise should orient itself more to what Ward is doing than what Hartley is, but that would mean a massive admission of culpability.

Doesn't matter though, if it weren't for edmonton, this would be the most dysfunctional management team in the league.

I am pretty sure that you're smarter than that.

As for the issue of the thread, yes I remember them being aligned in the past as well. Obviously they felt there was a reason to change (personnel differences) so they did. Not sure how that makes them inept.

But considering that they are in a full rebuild and are acquiring as many young players as they can, and that many of those players will play for both clubs, it makes perfect sense to go back to a unified system.

868904 · 06-01-2013, 09:31 AM

I don't really care about the system, I just want them to teach the forwards puck protection and puck skills and the defencemen how to properly contain and read plays.

Every time I watch the Red Wings play, I marvel at how every single forward has amazing puck protection skills. It may be because they look for that when drafting but I'm sure it's something that they teach in the minors.

Hudler was probably our best guy last year at puck protection, and he was probably the smallest too.

mikephoen · 06-01-2013, 10:49 AM

I'm not sure why they have Conroy spinning this as a new development. Ward ran the same system as Brent. The NHL lockout prevented Hartly from implementing his system at main camp where lots of Heat players would have been (and Ward and the Heat staff would be as well), so of course Ward continued on with the same system as the year before. Now that they will have a real camp again for 2013/2014 it makes sense that they will sync the teams back up again.