Uber PC

[MaDMaN_26]

So its been a while since I upgraded my PC. I want to build a PC from scratch... Time for SSD, usb 3.0 etc...

I'm willing to spend the cash, I want a bad ass machine... but at the same time not needlessly throwing cash away... I prefer to put my machine together or at least pick the parts and pay memory express to put it together. Future proofing is good.

I've picked out some parts... and I just wanted to see if anyone out there had any additional idea's or thoughts on this build. Reasons why I should maybe go in a different direction or things I have not thought about.

Case: ThermalTake Level 10 GT Snow Edition Chassis

Processor: Core™ i7-3930K Processor, 3.20GHz w/ 12MB Cache -> this was one of those moments where I opted for a slightly cheaper option... there is the 3960x but I didn't think it was worth the extra $$... feel free to agree/disagree.

Mother Board: Rampage IV Extreme w/ DDR3 1866, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan, PCI-E, 4-way CrossFireX / SLI

Memory: TridentX Series 16GB PC3-19200 Dual Channel DDR3 Kit (2 x 8GB) - should I get 2 sets for 32GB?

(anyone understand why THIS is more expensive - which is better?)

SSD - OS drive and heavily used installs: Plextor M3 Series PX-512M3 2.5" 512GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Hybrid HDD for rest of installed applications: OCZ RevoDrive RVDHY-FH-1T PCI-E 1TB Hybrid Solid State Drive PCI-Express 2.0 x4 MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

For the above 2 hard drives had to look at newegg.ca as Mem Express doesn't carry the brand (Plextor) which seemed to rate well on Tom's hardware and they have no Hybrid's for desktops - which I thought was odd. Is there any reason not to use a Hybrid?

Storage drives - in Raid for redundancy. : 1.5TB Caviar Black 7200rpm SATA III w/ 64MB Cache x 2

Video Cards: GTX680 Direct CU II TOP GeForce GTX 680 2GB PCI-E w/ Dual DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort x2 - in SLI

Power Supply: Professional Series HX1050 Modular Power Supply

Optical: BW-12B1ST 12x Blu-Ray Writer, SATA, Black, Retail

Thoughts on cooling? Is liquid cooling high maintenance or a pain? Is it that much better?

Am I missing something I'll need to RAID those 1.5TB - I don't know much about Raid-ing drives.

Any other thoughts? I'm thinking on board sound is fine... do cards really make a difference these days?

[zamler]

I am not up to date on hardware as much as I used to be (on the software side of things now) but a few thoughts. You don't need 32 gigs of RAM, you will not be able to utilize it, unless you are using some serious professional software. Don't get any motherboard with active cooling, the fans fail at an alarming rate. Do you really need a Blu Ray drive? You can spend half the price on the processor and I doubt you would ever notice the difference.

A discrete sound card only matters if you are using the analog outputs, otherwise they won't help you at all.

edit - water cooling is not necessary anymore IMO, air cooling tech is so good that it rivals liquid solutions. It's great if you want to push your components to the absolute limit, but otherwise skip it. My 2 cents.

[MaDMaN_26]

Originally Posted by zamler

I am not up to date on hardware as much as I used to be (on the software side of things now) but a few thoughts. You don't need 32 gigs of RAM, you will not be able to utilize it, unless you are using some serious professional software. Don't get any motherboard with active cooling, the fans fail at an alarming rate. Do you really need a Blu Ray drive? You can spend half the price on the processor and I doubt you would ever notice the difference.

A discrete sound card only matters if you are using the analog outputs, otherwise they won't help you at all.

edit - water cooling is not necessary anymore IMO, air cooling tech is so good that it rivals liquid solutions. It's great if you want to push your components to the absolute limit, but otherwise skip it. My 2 cents.

Thanks for the feedback, and ya I figured 32gb ram was over kill (and easy to change later if it for some unforeseen reason became a bottle neck.)

I'm not sure I know what active cooling on a MoBo is? I don't see anything on the asus I linked that refers to it... So I think I'm good?

As for the BluRay and processor - I may not *need* them at the moment, but I'm okay with that. 1-3 years down the line I'm sure I'll be happy I have them.

I talked to a guy at memory express after posting and he suggested a different Hard Drive solution, basically instead of the Hybrid I had listed just get 4 of the 1.5TB drives storage drives and put them in a "Raid 10" configuration. So it will be 3TB of storage, redundant and 2 times as fast - then I'm overall faster on average instead of just faster for the things the hybrid decides to cache and slow for all else... he made sense to me. I didn't/don't know raid well enough to solution it really... but if it can be done I think that's more what I am looking for.

He also said he figured the intel SSD drive thats 480GB would work just as well as the one I wanted from NewEgg as my main. Gonna go look for reviews on it tonight.

Again thanks, I had the same feeling about water cooling, but good to hear someone else confirm that belief.

[zamler]

The motherboard in your list has a fan, aka active cooling. I try to avoid those as much as possible.

[photon]

Yeah I went to 16GB when I started running a couple of virtual machines at once when I did some kinds of development, most people don't do that, so 16GB should be well over enough.

Good choice on the Plextor if you can get that, that's basically right at the top I think currently. It's what I would buy if I was building right now.

I've got 240MB and I really don't feel constricted for app or game installs, 512GB would be huge. RAID 10 for the data drive might be overkill, I've only got 1 2GB Hitachi for my primary data drive and it's hardly full, and I offload documents and media onto a NAS (stuff that I'll likely want to access from multiple computers and media players), and do some drive redundancy from there (as well as online offsite backups).

All this stuff generates noise and heat, the stuff I have on my data drive the speed isn't going to be noticeable at all (images, movies, music, etc). About the only thing I have on there that could benefit from speed is some virtual machines but they already run fast enough that I've never felt the need.

And that's something you can bump up later if you really want to as well. Or start with mirroring if you want some redundancy (just keep in mind that that's not a really good option for data safety by itself). The motherboard should do the RAID for you.

I agree about liquid cooling, it seems to be louder than the best air coolers and I'm really picky about noise, and only really necessary for the craziest of stuff.

I got a blu-ray player only and to be honest I haven't touched it. For data storage everything is either online, or in the rarest of cases USB key. For movie playback I hardly ever use it, I can honestly see my next computer not having such a drive at all.

The Intel 520 is a good drive as well, uses the SandForce chipset so performs pretty well and Intel has good quality and warranty. Probably not quite as fast as the Plextor but still good (though compressible writes are probably faster on the Intel). The Samsung 830 is another good choice.

I've got one of those Direct II CU cards (570GTX) and it's one of the few coolers I am almost happy with (usually I rip off the coolers and replace them). Hopefully those will do as well. Just make sure you can actually fit both on that motherboard, they're huge, search to see if someone else has done it.

[MaDMaN_26]

Originally Posted by photon

.... I've only got 1 2GB Hitachi for my primary data drive and it's hardly full, and I offload documents and media onto a NAS (stuff that I'll likely want to access from multiple computers and media players), and do some drive redundancy from there (as well as online offsite backups).

Funny I have never owned a NAS... always thought it might be a bit over kill in itself. Maybe its something I should give some thought too.

Originally Posted by photon

And that's something you can bump up later if you really want to as well. Or start with mirroring if you want some redundancy (just keep in mind that that's not a really good option for data safety by itself). The motherboard should do the RAID for you

What makes you say that? I was hoping/thinking it would be quite safe.

Originally Posted by photon

I got a blu-ray player only and to be honest I haven't touched it. For data storage everything is either online, or in the rarest of cases USB key. For movie playback I hardly ever use it, I can honestly see my next computer not having such a drive at all.

The blur-ray player/burner also does CD's and DVD's and is only $79.99, so I'll probably get it just so I have it in case I need it... I may not use it either.

Originally Posted by photon

The Intel 520 is a good drive as well, uses the SandForce chipset so performs pretty well and Intel has good quality and warranty. Probably not quite as fast as the Plextor but still good (though compressible writes are probably faster on the Intel). The Samsung 830 is another good choice.

Read up on the 520 last night and ya it seems like a decent drive... until I read you post praising the Plextor I figured I'd just go with the 520 to keep all components in house at memory express. well.. shoot, lol.

Originally Posted by photon

I've got one of those Direct II CU cards (570GTX) and it's one of the few coolers I am almost happy with (usually I rip off the coolers and replace them). Hopefully those will do as well. Just make sure you can actually fit both on that motherboard, they're huge, search to see if someone else has done it.

I actually did read a post about a guy who had them in SLI on the board I mentioned. So I should be good.... I'll talk to memory express about an after market solution to replace the existing fan... good tip (Zamler and you)

Thanks for the feedback!

[photon]

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

Funny I have never owned a NAS... always thought it might be a bit over kill in itself. Maybe its something I should give some thought too.

I like them because of the shared storage (so I can put media on there for all my devices to access, or keep business related stuff there so my wife and I don't have to email stuff back and forth), and because of the low power usage compared to having those disks in my PC. Not going to be a big advantage for everyone of course, depends on specific needs.

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

What makes you say that? I was hoping/thinking it would be quite safe.

Mirroring protects you from losing a drive, but there are many other ways to lose data. File system corruption, accidentally deleting/formatting/etc... And mirroring won't protect you against those, it'll just mirror the problem.

So combine that with a true backup method, there's a few threads on online backup solutions, my NAS automatically talks to Amazon S3 so I just use that to backup my documents and business stuff and pictures, and most of my media I don't care about backing up, but if I did I'd probably do a removable hard drive or something like that.

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

The blur-ray player/burner also does CD's and DVD's and is only $79.99, so I'll probably get it just so I have it in case I need it... I may not use it either.

That's true.

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

Read up on the 520 last night and ya it seems like a decent drive... until I read you post praising the Plextor I figured I'd just go with the 520 to keep all components in house at memory express. well.. shoot, lol.

Heh yeah I've had that struggle before. The immediate gratification desire makes it even more complex

You can't go wrong with the Intel and you would probably only ever be able to tell the difference in artificial benchmarks. I'm running a drive with almost the same guts as the Intel and I'm very happy with it.

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

I actually did read a post about a guy who had them in SLI on the board I mentioned. So I should be good.... I'll talk to memory express about an after market solution to replace the existing fan... good tip (Zamler and you)

Thanks for the feedback!

No problem. XbitLabs has good reviews on CPU coolers, check out their recent stuff to find out what's the best or what's a good balance between cost and performance.

[darklord700]

Why do you go for LGA 2011? For most people, it is because they run Photoshop. But for gaming, it might not be necessary. Also you have a very fast SSD and a fast hybrid SSD so your storage drive need not be fast light the WD Caviar Black.

But really, if you have a big 512MB SSD, I don't think you need the hybrid OCZ SSD at all. I'm speaking from a gaming and value perspective.

[MaDMaN_26]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Why do you go for LGA 2011? For most people, it is because they run Photoshop. But for gaming, it might not be necessary. Also you have a very fast SSD and a fast hybrid SSD so your storage drive need not be fast light the WD Caviar Black.

But really, if you have a big 512MB SSD, I don't think you need the hybrid OCZ SSD at all. I'm speaking from a gaming and value perspective.

Actually I want to play around with photo shop. I'd like to be able to take RAW pic's and then play with them. That said Future proofing is part of the plan.

Your right the hybrid is over kill, and on the advice of a few different people I have scrapped it... just doing the SSD as a main drive and then using raid for the mechanical drives. (4x the 1.5TB in a RAID 10 - for 3 TB of space, mirroring and a speed boost.)

[MaDMaN_26]

So going back and forth with Memory Express about the details... the video card I want is back ordered and he suggested a slightly lower clocked one...

what do you guys think?

What I wanted - http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX39713

What he is suggesting - as it is in stock - http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX39712


Seems like a very small over clock difference... but also only $10 price difference... :\

[cDnStealth]

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

So going back and forth with Memory Express about the details... the video card I want is back ordered and he suggested a slightly lower clocked one...

what do you guys think?

What I wanted - http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX39713

What he is suggesting - as it is in stock -http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX39712


Seems like a very small over clock difference... but also only $10 price difference... :\

Couldn't you manually overclock the card to make up that difference?

[MaDMaN_26]

Originally Posted by cDnStealth

Couldn't you manually overclock the card to make up that difference?

I know right... I was thinking the same thing but then it just doesn't make sense to me... why would Asus offer a $10 less card that physically spec's exactly the same with a slightly slower factory clock BUT it can be manually tuned to be its equal... why would anyone spend $10 more? Why would they bother to enter the market with 2 products priced $10 dollars apart... it make no sense to me and so I think there must be more... But I may be over thinking it.

[cDnStealth]

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

I know right... I was thinking the same thing but then it just doesn't make sense to me... why would Asus offer a $10 less card that's physically spec's exactly the same with a slightly slower factory clock BUT it can be manually tuned to be its equal... why would anyone spend $10 more? Why would they bother to enter the market with 2 products priced $10 dollars apart... it make no sense to me and so I think there must be more... But I may be over thinking it.

Because most people don't know what they're doing or aren't interested in messing around with clock speed. They just want something to work straight out of the box with no hassle. The only thing I thought might be different was the cooler but it looks like an identical card.

[photon]

Yeah that's pretty much it, some people don't want to mess with OCing it themselves. And overclocking isn't always guaranteed either, you can get a card and have it not work with even the slightest overclock, whereas if you buy it overclocked from the factory you know that it will work at the specified speed.

I'm on the flip side, if I can get a 15-20% overclock for only $10, I'll spend the $10.

[Sinny Darino]

I recently built a PC from Memory Express, this is what I got



Case: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX30870 Great case with lots of space.
Processor: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX31558
Motherboard: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX36364 (Has 7.1 surround so no need for a sound card.
Video: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX35517
Ram: http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX31394
HDD: 60 GB SSD (Wish I would of least got a 120 GB) for OS and important programs only
HDD: 1.5TB secondary drive for files.
Power Supply: 750W
Cost: $1900-$2000

As for liquid cooling, it will void any and all warranty on every part you install in the computer. Just get a nice heatsinc and fan and you will be fine. (Told to me by memory express)

With the processors, there are some that end with a K and some that do not. All that the K means is that you can overclock it, but with processor speeds these days you do not really need too, and it just makes your system less stable and run a hell of a lot hotter. 20 degrees hotter or so (on mine)

I personally do not see the need of dual video cards right now, as not many games are graphically intense enough to need 2 of them, plus the one I purchased has 2.5 GB of Video Ram.

In my opinion, I built a killer system for a mid range price. I could of gone faster, but anything over what I bought you were just paying a premium for. There is no need to go stupidly expensive as it will be outdated a week after you buy it. Keep it reasonable, there is no need to have 4 hard drives, even in Raid. 2 video cards is overkill at the moment in my opinion...

The thing I like about my motherboard is that it will kill power to the video card when you are not using it (uses less power and prolongs the life), and it also has 7.1 surround sound and USB 3.0 which my case also supports.

If you have any other questions feel free to PM me as I am in memory express almost weekly and have built a few systems myself!

[photon]

For $300 a 660Ti is probably a better option now, though I'd wait till the price stabilizes, it just came out so they're probably inflated a bit.

EDIT: I'd also consider a 7 series chipset for the motherboard, Intel just released an update that passes through TRIM commands for SSDs for RAID arrays, so you can RAID 0 two SSDs for almost double the performance! If I was building I'd definitely consider getting 2 128GB or 256GB instead of 1 265GB or 1 512GB.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6161/i...rds-we-test-it

1,100MB/s!

[MaDMaN_26]

Originally Posted by photon

For $300 a 660Ti is probably a better option now, though I'd wait till the price stabilizes, it just came out so they're probably inflated a bit.

EDIT: I'd also consider a 7 series chipset for the motherboard, Intel just released an update that passes through TRIM commands for SSDs for RAID arrays, so you can RAID 0 two SSDs for almost double the performance! If I was building I'd definitely consider getting 2 128GB or 256GB instead of 1 265GB or 1 512GB.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6161/i...rds-we-test-it

1,100MB/s!

I thought you never ever raid or defrag SSD's because their lifetime is based on the number of read writes to each sector... raiding them or lots of defragging reduces that life expectancy drastically.

*edit* ok I guess this TRIM thing is specifically to address that issue. 1,100MB/s ... lol wow.

*edit* ok... wow, the more i read the more i think I need to do this. 2x ~250GB SSD's in a raid 0... wow

[photon]

For SSDs it's writes that are limited, reads are fine forever (in fact when an SSD finally "runs out of writes" it'll become a read only device )

I don't think RAID 0 or RAID 1 would have a negative impact since the # of writes is going to be the same regardless (ignoring the fact that mirroring will use up two drives' worth of writes twice as fast as striping). The only change is with mirroring the data gets written on 2 different drives (incurring the same # of writes on each of 2 drives as a single drive) or with striping half the data is getting written to 2 different drives (incurring the same # of writes on both of 2 drives as a single drive).

Only in RAID 5 or similar where extra parity data is being written could I see RAID having a negative impact on drive life.

Unless I'm missing something about RAID that's going to increase the # of writes or increase write amplification.

[MaDMaN_26]

So Photon - Help me understand this...

If I wanted to do this new raid-0 set up for SSD's - Do I need Ivy Bridge? I assume that is not what I have listed with the 3960K processor and then is the motherboard I have still ok...

What would I have to change? or simply change my SSD drive to be 2x256gb and put them in raid-0 and *poof* it's done?

[photon]

Originally Posted by MaDMaN_26

So Photon - Help me understand this...

If I wanted to do this new raid-0 set up for SSD's - Do I need Ivy Bridge? I assume that is not what I have listed with the 3960K processor and then is the motherboard I have still ok...

What would I have to change? or simply change my SSD drive to be 2x256gb and put them in raid-0 and *poof* it's done?

Looking at the comments section on the Anand article where they tested it I'm going to guess the X79 chipset from that motherboard does NOT support this (way to go Intel).

In theory if it was supported then yeah all you would do would be to attach 2 drives instead of one, setup the drives as a RAID array in the BIOS and poof it's done, install Windows, etc.

Doing a bit of reading it seems the performance gain in the real world is a bit underwhelming.