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Old 10-17-2010, 09:30 PM   #1
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Well since people were complaining about the posts in the other thread, I thought id start a thread.

Apparently im a "whackjob" because I dont believe the official story.

I guess 84 percent of Americans are whackjobs and 85 percent of Canadians are whackjobs also.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=3553
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:34 PM   #2
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The article doesn't even have a source, just makes claims about what some poll said. Doesn't start out good.
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:36 PM   #3
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Apparently Kenya is the smartest country in the world?!?!?



edit: source is University of Maryland study

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Old 10-17-2010, 09:42 PM   #4
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Beware the lizard people and their H1N1 vaccines.
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:44 PM   #5
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Israel, lol. Gotta love the religiously fanatical middle east.
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:44 PM   #6
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Beerfest imma back you on this one.

I watched "Loose Change" and if people gave it a good watch I think they may be convinced if not at least unsure of whether it was fully AQ.
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:44 PM   #7
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If you can't post in the thread without resorting to insults, please refrain from posting.
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfest View Post
Well since people were complaining about the posts in the other thread, I thought id start a thread.

Apparently im a "whackjob" because I dont believe the official story.

I guess 84 percent of Americans are whackjobs and 85 percent of Canadians are whackjobs also.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=3553
I'll entertain any argument as long as it's valid. There are SO many ridiculous arguments that the "against the official story" people use, it makes me pass those conspiracy theorists as some of the "whackjobiest" ones.

The difference with something like JFK for instance, there are holes in the official account. It's barely plausible. 9/11 could very well have unfolded like the government said.
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:45 PM   #9
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:46 PM   #10
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Take a watch for anyone that's curious:

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Old 10-17-2010, 09:46 PM   #11
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Whack Job scale (from least whackiest to most whackiest):

Normal People > Cat Owners > Non-celebrity twitter subscribers > The Sham-wow guy > Ted Bundy > Vancouver Canucks fans > Jersey Shore Fans > Mel Gibson > 9/11 conspiracists
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:47 PM   #12
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If you look at the actual poll results (from Wikipedia), Oct 2006 responses: 16% said "telling the truth", 53% said they are "mostly telling the truth but hiding something", 28% said they are "mostly lying", 3% not sure.

53 out of the 84% say "mostly telling the truth but hiding something" - very different than just saying "hiding something". The hiding something part could be as simple as "they hid some of the intelligence failures that allowed the hijackers to enter the country".

Nice way to massage the truth.

And btw if you seriously think that the US government, which is usually such a sieve that hundreds of thousands of top secret documents are leaked regulary by sites like Wikileaks, can in this particular case keep the lid on the largest conspiracy in US history - you are most defintely a whackjob.
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:49 PM   #13
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I love when people join discussion on a thread and instead of adding anything of value they just pile on sarcastic comments and random attacks at the OP.

Seriously, add discussion people instead of your sarcasm.
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flabbibulin View Post
Whack Job scale (from least whackiest to most whackiest):

Normal People > Cat Owners > Non-celebrity twitter subscribers > The Sham-wow guy > Ted Bundy > Vancouver Canucks fans > Jersey Shore Fans > Mel Gibson > 9/11 conspiracists
Where do 'moon landing was a hoax people' fall?
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:51 PM   #15
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Not my post but I think this sums it up pretty good:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
9/11 conspiracy theories are easy to buy into when you know just enough about the events to be dangerous and are exposed to people who sound like they know what they're talking about. I have known some very smart people who believed some of them, and I'll admit that I fell victim to the illogic of "Find the Boeing" when I was in high school.

My belief in stupid things when I was younger took a 180 in college, leading to my almost fanatical skepticism. In college, I took a class that was essentially the professor teaching conspiracy theories. Fortunately, he loved to argue and debate anyone who could provide evidence for their argument, and I did real research and convinced him and most of the class that the official version of events is true as far as WTC 1, 2, and 7 collapsing solely due to the plane crashes and that a plane did actually hit the pentagon.

The towers' collapse looks a lot like controlled demolitions people have seen over and over again on TV. The hole in the side of the Pentagon is a lot smaller than the cross-section of a plane and coincidentally lines up with a line of debris on the lawn from construction. The 9/11 Commission report, like many huge government investigations, is full of mixups and little inaccuracies that could be signs of a coverup, but more likely are from important people trying to cover their assses and escape any blame.

Why the towers collapsed
Each tower was constructed with a central core that housed elevators, stairs, and utility connections. Reinforced concrete floors were attached to this and the exterior "steel cage" with angle brackets.

As the fires burning from tens of thousands of pounds of jet fuel and office furnishings softened structural steel (this is important, because while jet fuel and office furnishings do not burn hot enough to melt steel, yield strength and modus of elasticity are inversely proportional to temperature below the melting point, see the image at the end of the post,) and as reinforcing steel flexed and concrete cracked, the floors began to snap away from the angle brackets.

As the brackets failed in large numbers, weight transferred to others, which were overloaded and broke. This caused a cascade of failures, unsurprisingly beginning near the areas of heaviest damage. Significant portions of at least one floor detached from the core and the cage, crashing into the floor below it. This overloaded the supports of the floor below as well as unbalancing the distribution of forces on the core. As each floor fell from its supports, the air displaced blew out windows, leading to the appearance of secondary explosions occurring

Because the area affected by fire and impact damage was not confined to one floor, the already weakened floor below was unable to take the weight of the first collapsing floor and separated from the core and outer cage. After lower floors dropped out, floors above the initial point of failure that had already been weakened by fire and the impact were unable to stand with large amounts of the steel cage and core missing.

At some point in the few seconds after the initial floor's collapse, the core failed catastrophically due to the insufficiently supported weight above the first floor that collapsed. At this point, complete collapse was inevitable because of the increasing weight as each floor failed in sequence. "Explosions" were reported before the collapse were floors falling before the process was visible from the outside. Seriously, use some loving common sense, a skyscraper falling down isn't exactly a quiet sequence of events.

If your friend mentions nano-thermite, punch him in the balls. Presence of barium nitrate, the supposed smoking gun of the thermite theory, is indicative of either thermite-induced demolition or burning of computer circuit boards. I can't imagine where a bunch of burned computers would come from in an office building that was on fire.

WTC 7

Let me start with one thing: "A steel framed building has never collapsed from fire alone."
This is often accompanies a picture of a building that was hit by a plane and burned for hours, I think it was a hotel in Sweden or something like that. For the Pentagon part of today's lesson, note that there is no identifiable part of the plane visible. Now about that claim about fire, let me present Delft University's Architecture building, which collapsed after an fire sparked by a shorted out coffee machine burned out of control for over 5 hours. There wasn't even a plane crash! Nobody was hurt, and contrary to initial reports, the extensive library was unharmed by fire and smoke.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ff1_1210707903

Watch this video. At about 9 seconds, the building buckles in the middle and collapses as would be expected from a controlled demolition. Might as well leave the window open, we're going to come back to it in a minute.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES...ocked.down.wmv

WTC 7 suffered damage from fire and impact of debris from the towers. I'm not sure if truthers are still claiming that it was undamaged from the outside, but it was. a section 10 floors high was scooped out to a depth of 1/4 to 1/3 of the building's area. In fact, the pictures reminded me of the damage done to the Alfred Murrah Federal Building in the 1995 terrorist attack, but on a smaller scale.

First of all, the fire burned for 15 hours. The sprinkler systems required manual activation of pumps and everyone had already evacuated. NIST reports indicate that a pressurized diesel fuel line running to the 5th floor generators was not a major cause as previously theorized, but that fire was fueled constantly until fuel tanks were empty.

WTC 7 was constructed with a combination of support beams and transfer girders. Upon structural failure of any support, the load would be transfered to surrounding beams. Column 72 on the 13th floor was the first to fail due to decreased strength from fires. Loads were transferred toward the east end of the building, and the east penthouse collapsed, overloading support structures and allowing collapse to progress toward the west of the building.

WTC7 did not collapse at freefall speeds. Go back to the video, and look at the top left of the building as the video starts. What you see at 2-3 seconds is the East Penthouse collapsing. For the next 7 seconds, columns are failing until they can no longer support the building and it collapses in on the most heavily damaged part, with intact sections holding up the longest.

"We decided to pull it" is another truther favorite, claiming that it means they were going to demolish the building. Unfortunately for them, this is not a phrase used by demolition contractors. On the other hand, if "it" refers to emergency services' attempts to save a building that was already a complete write-off due to extensive structural damage and several floors engulfed in flames in addition to a fire on the 5th floor fed by a pressurized diesel line (used to supply generators) with tens of thousands of gallons of fuel oil in the basement and no way to safely shut it off, it makes a lot more sense.

The Pentagon
A hijacked plane full of people disappears shortly after two more hijacked planes were crashed into buildings, radar shows the plane disappearing as a huge explosion occurs at the Pentagon, hundreds of eyewitnesses including at least one professional pilot have gone on the record reporting that they saw a plane crash into the Pentagon, and there is a trail of damage the width of a plane leading up to the impact site, and a 40,000 pound generator was hit by something big enough to knock it off its mounts and move it toward the damaged area. But the plane didn't cartoonishly punch an outline of itself through a reinforced wall intended to stand up to anything short of a direct nuclear strike, so it must have been a missile. Some people even say there were holograms involved!

Debris found include several clearly identifiable plane parts, and eyewitnesses report that bits of aluminum identified as the plane's skin rained down for as much as 45 minutes after the impact. Not to mention that there's a missing plane and all its passengers and crew.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1 This guy sums it all up very well.

Flight 93
It crashed in Pennsylvania. Seriously, there's nothing to discuss. The engine was "found 6 miles away" because the distance was calculated by Mapquest for driving directions, it's a lot closer if you're a big chunk of metal flying through the air then bouncing and rolling from a crash site
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:51 PM   #16
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Whack Job scale (from least whackiest to most whackiest):

Normal People > Cat Owners > Non-celebrity twitter subscribers > The Sham-wow guy > Ted Bundy > Vancouver Canucks fans > Jersey Shore Fans > Mel Gibson > 9/11 conspiracists
Are you going to continue to slinging insults or are you actually going to contribute something?

I feel sorry for anyone who believes whatever the government spoon feeds them.

I recommend all of you watch this video.
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:51 PM   #17
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Where do 'moon landing was a hoax people' fall?
Right in front of Buzz Aldrin

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Old 10-17-2010, 09:52 PM   #18
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I love when people join discussion on a thread and instead of adding anything of value they just pile on sarcastic comments and random attacks at the OP.

Seriously, add discussion people instead of your sarcasm.
It's been a looong time, most everything anyone can post has already been discussed.

If someone started a thread trying to seriously discuss the plausibility of a flat earth, what do you expect the reaction to be?

People get treated like they act.
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:53 PM   #19
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My only issue with 911 is how the buildings fell. I don't know who it was or why and Im not going to speculate that it was the US or AQ or whatever. But if a building is going to collapse from an impact like that its not going to do so in perfect demolition style.
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Old 10-17-2010, 09:56 PM   #20
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Now that this thread's picked up a BIT of steam...

EDIT - While typing this, warning, this post is basically "what phaneuf3 said, but just out of what I remember, way less detailed"

First of all, I'm not going to sit through loose change again. From what I remember, it raised arguments like:

"nobody saw a plane at the Pentagon". There is footage. Yes it's only 2 frames in a bad quality security cam. but it's there. If it were doctored, there would be photoshop guys in there right away to tell you what's wrong. Also, the "lack of plane parts". Were these conspiracy theorists there? Did you consider that since the plane didn't go through the entire pentagon, it mostly hit the ground which would cause it to break into some very small pieces, not to mention the burning of many parts in the resulting fire.

- If a plane flew over this road, it would blow a car over as demonstrated here McKnight East. I rest my case. Also, an inexperienced pilot (which if you watched any programming following the tragedy, they mostly concentrated on learning navigation and in-flight procedures, and wanted to skip any take offs and landings part of the equation. Do you honestly think they'd be able to control a plane like that well enough to hit a building as small in height as the pentagon? Nope.

Not sure if this one was from loose change as well, but I remember someone making a note that steel melts at a higher temperature than jet fuel burns...without checking at what temperature steel's strength is essentially cut in half.

The twin towers were "designed to withstand a plane crash" Maybe a cessna. Not a jet airliner at those speeds. Even if they "Designed it to stay intact", it just wouldn't. Your car is designed to protect you in a highway crash, but if you hit a semi going 110km/h, your odds are not good. It is near impossible for any structure to withstand that. They don't build them to because unless it's a deliberate terrorist act, it's not going to happen. That will not happen by accident.
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