Panaroma new doc, UK "British schools Muslim rules"
Plus an article on what is being tought in some Muslim schools in the UK:
Quote:
Up to 5,000 pupils attending weekend schools across Britain are being exposed to textbooks claiming that some Jews were transformed into pigs and apes, and that some offences could be punished with stoning. One book for six year-olds warns that those who do not believe in Islam will be condemned to “hellfire” in death.
Another text for 15 year-olds teaches that thieves who break Sharia law should have their hands cut off for a first offence and their feet amputated for a subsequent crime. Teenagers are presented with diagrams showing where the cuts should be made.
Tonight’s Panorama on BBC One will claim that the books were discovered at a network of 40 private schools teaching the Saudi Arabian national curriculum. The programme claims to have uncovered evidence apparently linking the schools to the Saudi embassy. Officials at the embassy deny any link.
Seems to be a problem in a few places in Europe atm. Germany and the UK are experience a huge influx of muslim immigrants who some times will bring with them a lot of radical values that should have no place in those countries.
While I agree with freedom of religion, there should be screens and checks in place so archaic and barbaric practices and values don't get brought over as well. Though it's going to be a fine line to walk about what to allow and what not.
One book for six year-olds warns that those who do not believe in Islam will be condemned to “hellfire” in death.
Similar to a book I was supposed to read (or at least was told to read) when I was around six years old:
Chronicles 15:13
Quote:
...but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.
Corinthians 5:9-13
Quote:
...Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
Deuteronomy 7:3-4
Quote:
You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons, for they would turn away your sons from following me, to serve other gods. Then the anger of the Lord would be kindled against you, and he would destroy you quickly.
Deuteronomy 13:13-19
Quote:
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the Lord is giving you, that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.
Those are just the ones I found in 2 minutes. Islam doesn't hold an exclusive license threatening non-believers with death.
Last edited by billybob123; 11-23-2010 at 09:52 AM.
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I dont understand why the British would allow the Saudi curriculum to be taught in their country. Its not like the Saudis preach a moderate form of Islam.
Similar to a book I was supposed to read (or at least was told to read) when I was around six years old:
Chronicles 15:13
Corinthians 5:9-13
Deuteronomy 7:3-4
Deuteronomy 13:13-19
Those are just the ones I found in 2 minutes. Islam doesn't hold an exclusive license threatening non-believers with death.
certainly you can find scripture in the old testament that makes you raise an eyebrow towards Judaism, but to imply that Judaism is anything close to Islam when it comes to acts of human indecency would be ridiculous.
Edit- your NT scripture is hardly comparable to the other 3 from the OT
Last edited by Flabbibulin; 11-23-2010 at 10:39 AM.
Why are you talking about the bible in this thread? Haha...
From my observations, many people are unable to speak out against Islam unless they couple it with an attack on Judaism/Christianity as well- perhaps an odd form of political correctness??
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I dont understand why the British would allow the Saudi curriculum to be taught in their country. Its not like the Saudis preach a moderate form of Islam.
Saudi's did this smartly though, it is done off school hours in weekend 'camps' where these books are given out. Although after this episode of panaroma I'm sure there will be something done about it.
The governing bodies in the UK that make sure schools are actually teaching what goes according to their rules is ineffective and even many of these Islamic schools are opting out of these to join a new governing body which is run by the same people who run these schools.
I think the best part of the documentary was the discussion about not only how harmful it is to allow extremist views to be taught to those children but that voluntary segregation carries with it great risks to the public at large.
Similar to a book I was supposed to read (or at least was told to read) when I was around six years old:
Chronicles 15:13
Corinthians 5:9-13
Deuteronomy 7:3-4
Deuteronomy 13:13-19
Those are just the ones I found in 2 minutes. Islam doesn't hold an exclusive license threatening non-believers with death.
Thats great, but I don't know of a single catholic school thats preaching this or teaching it to their kids. I don't know of a single catholic school that calls Muslim's pigs that deserve nothing more to death.
the problem is that there's no control by the state over radicallization of curricullum, and with one of the biggest fears being based around home grown terrorism they need to clamp down on this.
I'm firmly in the camp that if your in a position of authority such as a iman or rabbi or priest and you teach people this stuff then if your an immigrant your out, if your a naturalized citizen your teaching hate crimes and shouldn't be allowed to teach.
I can logically see where paranoia because of news like this in Europe is going to ramp up and eventually immigration gates are going to be closed.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Remember that teacher in Alberta who taught his students that the holocaust was a Jewish lie... We got rid of him lickety split.
I really wish we didn't have separate schooling systems based on religions, I know that's a big pipe dream so I'll just hope we push hard to monitor and make sure these separate segregated schools aren't teaching hate and or things against that nations curriculum requirements.
Remember that teacher in Alberta who taught his students that the holocaust was a Jewish lie... We got rid of him lickety split.
I really wish we didn't have separate schooling systems based on religions, I know that's a big pipe dream so I'll just hope we push hard to monitor and make sure these separate segregated schools aren't teaching hate and or things against that nations curriculum requirements.
I dunno- isn't this a case of a sect of Islam painting a bad picture for all private religious schools? I would be surprised if private schools in Canada were actually teaching kids the sort of nonsense we see in the video. Off the wall religious notions yes, but not the things you would see in Europe. Not to mention many of the most respected prep schools in North America are faith based (albeit only in tradition).
We also need to remember that the UK, and Europe, is dealing with integration issues that we couldn't imagine over here.
I dunno- isn't this a case of a sect of Islam painting a bad picture for all private religious schools? I would be surprised if private schools in Canada were actually teaching kids the sort of nonsense we see in the video. Off the wall religious notions yes, but not the things you would see in Europe. Not to mention many of the most respected prep schools in North America are faith based (albeit only in tradition).
We also need to remember that the UK, and Europe, is dealing with integration issues that we couldn't imagine over here.
Certainly its a case of these schools giving them all a bad image, but for me separating children based on parents beliefs deprives them of a healthy upbringing which good public schools can, mind you we have private schools for people who have money so its a bigger debate than just religious schooling.
I think the problem for Islam is many fold, just look at the veil for the girls, this feels to the western world like oppression of women/girls. Separating girls from boys in schools, again a lot of western culture looks down upon this (mind you some people think this is a good idea in any school,) the insistance of pushing sharia law into the western nations which find it often very barbaric and against our ideals.
How Islam moving into Europe plays out is going to be a major issue in the next 50 years, I think its high time we are more assertive on being open to immigration but making sure that our values and liberties are asserted over any religious belief.
From my observations, many people are unable to speak out against Islam unless they couple it with an attack on Judaism/Christianity as well- perhaps an odd form of political correctness??
Who's not speaking out against Islam? Teaching people that Jews are pigs and that anyone who doesn't follow your religion deserves death is awful. It should be stopped. No one should be allowed to teach hate.
My post was simply that the basic book of two other mainstream religions teaches intolerance as well. Neither is acceptable.
Perhaps my point would be more well-stated that religious education that teaches intolerance is unacceptable, no matter what the religion.
I'd perhaps restate your point as attacks on Islam these days seem to be the thing to do, even when similar hate is being taught by the mainstream religions here, i.e. speaking out on Islam is only possible if you ignore the same from the Christian side?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
Thats great, but I don't know of a single catholic school thats preaching this or teaching it to their kids. I don't know of a single catholic school that calls Muslim's pigs that deserve nothing more to death.
Very true. Your point that the small sect of intolerant bigot immigrants poisoning the view of majority towards all immigrants is a very valid one as well - it's definitely a concern. What percentage of immigrants even attend these schools? Or think the same way? Yet, it's portrayed in the news quite prominently and the rest of the immigrant community feels the wrath, even when they do speak out publicly against it. Sad.
Intolerance is unacceptable as a thing to teach children.
Last edited by billybob123; 11-23-2010 at 01:01 PM.
Who's not speaking out against Islam? Teaching people that Jews are pigs and that anyone who doesn't follow your religion is awful. It should be stopped. No one should be allowed to teach hate.
My post was simply that the basic book of two other mainstream religions teaches intolerance as well. Neither is acceptable.
Perhaps my point would be more well-stated that religious education that teaches intolerance is unacceptable, no matter what the religion.
Sure, many people are openly critical of Islam, but it seems that it is often not a singular attack, and in the name of political correctness, is diverged into a general attack on all religion- possibly for concern that critcizing Islam by itself would not be fair.
On the other hand, singular attacks on Christianity seem to occur with great regularity. Perhaps this is simply because we are more familiar in the west with the flaws in Christianity, but I'm not sure.
Please note that this is a mild obversation, and by no means am I implying that every religious cynic is like this.
On the other hand, singular attacks on Christianity seem to occur with great regularity. Perhaps this is simply because we are more familiar in the west with the flaws in Christianity, but I'm not sure.
It could also maybe be because Islamic teachings have so little bearing on our lives in the West, especially North America. I recall seeing a stat when the ban-the-burqa crowd was fanning flames that less than 1% of Muslim women were wearing them at that time in that place. Meanwhile, at least in the USA, you have religious doctrine being forced onto people through politics? Maybe that's why the "attacks" against Christianity are happening? (e.g. gay rights, abortion, etc?)
Hmmm, does a minor degree in religious studies, along with endless hours of personal study in Christianity, Judaism, and Islam count???
Hard to believe when you make such wide sweeping statements. They all have their flaws, to say one is worse than others is wrong. Especially comparing the Quran and the Old Testement. Both portray an angry vengeful God who encourages killing non believers.
Panaroma new doc, UK "British schools Muslim rules"
