Does NHL discriminate against the French?

[troutman]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL.../15824961.html

Former Washington Capitals forward Bob Sirois launched a book Monday that says life in the NHL is much tougher for French players than other Canadians.

Sirois' book -- Discrimination in the NHL: Quebec Hockey Players Sidelined -- claims French players are less likely to be drafted, have shorter careers and earn less money than their Anglophone counterparts. The book even states that some NHL teams have instituted a total ban on French-Canadian players.

The English-language book, translated from a 2009 French edition, makes its argument on the basis of a comprehensive list of NHL draft picks from Quebec since 1970.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by troutman

Sirois' book -- Discrimination in the NHL: Quebec Hockey Players Sidelined -- claims French players are less likely to be drafted, have shorter careers and earn less money than their Anglophone counterparts. The book even states that some NHL teams have instituted a total ban on French-Canadian players.

Because their whiny babies.

[burn_this_city]

Its so tough to be French, the most neglected under appreciated group of whiners in all of humanity.

[Resolute 14]

Who the hell is Bob Sirois, aside from a former NHL nobody who is likely blaming discrimination on the fact that he's a nobody rather than relative lack of talent?

[scotty2hotty]

Completely ridiculous. Just pure fiction in order to gain readers.

Unless he's referring to the pre-1970's NHL? I have no idea what went on back then.

If not, then simply more of the same Quebecois crap.

[troutman]

Only three minutes for the franco-phobes to chime in.

Instead of attacking Bob Sirois (his book is not about him), can we discuss if he is right?

Don Cherry certainly conveys an anti-french attitude.

This is Bob's claim:

French players are less likely to be drafted, have shorter careers and earn less money than their Anglophone counterparts

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by troutman

Only three minutes for the franco-phobes to chime in.

Instead of attacking Bob Sirois (his book is not about him), can we discuss if he is right?

Don Cherry certainly conveys an anti-french attitude.

This is Bob's claim:

French players are less likely to be drafted, have shorter careers and earn less money than their Anglophone counterparts

I'm no franco-phobe, I simply tire of hearing about the poor francophones and their constant struggle against the evil english.

[Ducay]

They should just abandon hockey and stick to what they know (burning cars, union jobs, etc, etc).

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by troutman

Only three minutes for the franco-phobes to chime in.

Instead of attacking Bob Sirois (his book is not about him), can we discuss if he is right?

Don Cherry certainly conveys an anti-french attitude.

This is Bob's claim:

French players are less likely to be drafted, have shorter careers and earn less money than their Anglophone counterparts

He's just repeating a similar charge from another ex-NHL Francophone player a few years ago that also created some controversy.

In the end, a talented, committed player from The Congo who can help a team win would probably end up with a job because there are a whole lot of GM's and coaches financially incentivized to win at just about any cost.

Rather than whining about an improbable conspiracy, maybe a more productive place to look for deficiencies might be the minor hockey system and QMJHL way of identifying and developing talent.

If there's a problem with Quebec hockey talent it might lie in Quebec itself.

Cowperson

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

He's just repeating a similar charge from another ex-NHL Francophone player a few years ago that also created some controversy.

In the end, a talented, committed player from The Congo who can help a team win would probably end up with a job because there are a whole lot of GM's and coaches financially incentivized to win at just about any cost.

Rather than whining about an improbable conspiracy, maybe a more productive place to look for deficiencies might be the minor hockey system and QMJHL way of identifying and developing talent.

If there's a problem with Quebec hockey talent it might lie in Quebec itself.

Cowperson

Exactly, theres no way a talented player from Quebec would be overlooked simply because he's French. Maybe work ethic is an issue, it seems to be within Quebec and French society as a whole. That'd be about the only reason I could see an equally talented player from Quebec being passed over for an English equivilent.

[getbak]

This year in the NHL there are only 2 players who are making $10 million (actual salary not cap hit): Roberto Luongo (drafted 4th overall, from Montréal) in Vancouver and Vincent Lecavalier (drafted 1st overall, from Ile Bizard) in Tampa.

[scotty2hotty]

Originally Posted by troutman

Only three minutes for the franco-phobes to chime in.

And only 4 minutes for you to label other posters.

I don't know who here is a franco-phobe. I, for one, am a huge fan of French Canadiana. This doesn't stop me from being able to quickly smell a sensationalistic piece of writing designed to appeal to a particular demographic and sell books.

[Cheese]

I remember "back in the olden days" when le habitant was almost all French.
I don't recall anglos whining about that issue?

As to now...I agree completely with Cow...if their juniors were so great they would be winning Mem Cups at least every 3 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._Cup_champions

4 winners out of the last 27 years = 1 win ~7 years.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by troutman

Only three minutes for the franco-phobes to chime in.

Instead of attacking Bob Sirois (his book is not about him), can we discuss if he is right?

Don Cherry certainly conveys an anti-french attitude.

This is Bob's claim:

French players are less likely to be drafted, have shorter careers and earn less money than their Anglophone counterparts

1. The Q is by far the weakest league in the CHL, and outside of elite offensive players produces very little in the way of guys who can take the step to the NHL. There simply aren't many role player types that come out of that league, and that's what the majority of the NHL is made up of, good palyers who can play a system and be responsible. That's not the type of player that Quebec seems to produce in a bundance.

2. Directly tied to number 1, if you can't put up big numbers you better be able to play a system well. Is it discrimination that caused Daigle to have a relatively short career or the fact that he couldn't score and wouldn't check?

3. Again, directly related to number 1, if you are considered a project you will be paid accordingly. If the assertion is that they are paid less in comparison to players with like stats etc. we get into a different conversation, but even then there are numerous variables that come into play including the palyers own desires to only play in certain markets.

[Clever_Iggy]

I discriminate against French hockey players by not drafting them in my hockey pools.

What a bunch of non-sense. If any nationality is "discriminated" against, it's the Russians because there's a justifiable concern that they'll pack their bags and head home when the going gets tough.

[VladtheImpaler]

It all goes back to les Habs discriminating against their own, and drafting Wickenheiser over Savard. I suspect, as has been mentioned, it's the style of hockey being played in the QMJHL....

[troutman]

The claim should be easily testable.

Cowperson and burn have offered theories to possibly explain the claim.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by valo403

Is it discrimination that caused Daigle to have a relatively short career or the fact that he couldn't score and wouldn't check?

No, it was a lack of motivation. But it was reverse discrimination that saw him get his, at the time, huge rookie contract. The thought of a francophone superstar was very appealing to Sens management.

[Locke]

I say no, and basically because the NHL is a 'get what you give' meritocracy.

Many players have had attitude concerns over the years, Europeans usually and Russian work ethic and motivation is notoriously analyzed.

Cherry has ben known for anti-Euro sentiment as well, but the general concensus is that 'Uncle Don' lost his marbles the better part of a decade ago. Besides, in his mind, if a player isnt from Southern Ontario they're garbage and shouldnt even bother playing.

Its also well known that Francophone Canadians have a serious entitlement complex that would make it very difficult for them to succeed in a meritocracy when you have an attitude of 'I dont have to work hard, I have the skills.' This form of attitude wouldnt be accepted from a Russian, and their draft position has been known to plummet exceptionally when there are questions in regards to their motivation and work ethic.

It might also be suggested that the French themselves have created this problem by cocooning themselves in an isolated bubble as far as the coaching and training of the next generation is concerned.

The QMJHL has long been the 'little brother' in the CHL, and that could be perpetuated by former Francophone players ingraining old tendencies into the younger generation when they get out of the game and turn to coaching and training back in the Q.

[Bobblehead]

There may be some valid issues. Language barriers would be one, although any non-english speakers would encounter that issue. The minor leagues may not be preparing players in the best manner for the NHL, but some star players in the league, like Sidney Crosby, Lecavalier et al, seem to dispute that theory.

The bottom line would seem to be that any GM is going to do what they think is best for their team. To do otherwise is putting their own job on the line.

Where this may be an issue is if there are 2 players and one roster spot, the GM may look at attributes beyond ability. At that point there may be some discrimination but it would be almost impossible to prove.

There may be a correlation, but that is not necessarily causation.