Is there a CP thread for this incident?
As much as we get the story from CBC and CTV here, the Chinese stations my parents watch have been reporting about the incident and the aftermath all day. The Chinese government is understandingly very upset over the incident
It's pretty sickening how it's turning out to be a tourist attraction. But I guess besides maybe Manny Pacquiao, nothing of signficance ever comes out of the Phillipines to garner any sort of international attention.
Is there a CP thread for this incident?
As much as we get the story from CBC and CTV here, the Chinese stations my parents watch have been reporting about the incident and the aftermath all day. The Chinese government is understandingly very upset over the incident
No there isn't. I tried searching for one before i created this thread.
There are theories that the bus driver might have been involved with the hostage taking and he was definitely a person to blame when he runs out of the bus saying everyone is dead.
Hard to belive you can cut through a handcuff with a nail file.
Manila mayor Alfredo Lim said police are investigating a possible "tie-up" between hostage-taker Rolando Mendoza and the driver. Lim said 38-year-old Lubang acted "weird." "He was not afraid, he was very friendly toward Mendoza, and he was just laughing," Lim said yesterday. He said a normal hostage would not act so casually, and he described Lubang's claim that he cut through his handcuffs with a nail file as absurd. Lubang said he could not believe he escaped despite being handcuffed to the steering wheel. He said he used the file on a nail cutter, which he carries to work, to free himself. "I sawed at my cuffs. And when they broke I escaped."
This is a Photoshop I know, however it was done very quickly after the event from what I recall. Bad taste has been around since before this latest unfortunate event and will be around long after it's faded from our memory.
Sadly, even rainbow six has better tactics than those guys.
Was it that hard to give the guy his job back until he released the hostages? then throw him jail right after?
sledgehammering the door? and then tying a string to it to pull it off? If it was the chinese guy on the greyhound he would have ate everyone on the bus by the time they got in.
Should be an interesting investigation
This might be better from Captain or Worth (any of the army/law enforcement types) but there wasn't much the commandos could do. The Bus is a nightmare scenario for a hostage taking. Close quarters, limited points of entry, hard to get eyes and ears without the gunman knowing about it. In this scenario, it is much better to continue to negotiate than to storm the bus. The gunman had already released hostages earlier, so I thought it was only going to be a matter of time.
The exception is that the gunman open fire first, in that case, ROE is to storm the bus by any means necessary, whether you have a good plan or not.
Either way, this was a terrible tragedy and one that governments and security professionals will be studying for a very long time
The stupidest thing is that his demands were so minor compared to other hostage situations. He didn't ask for the release of dangerous criminals or whatnot that will find asylum in unstable countries. Just a job. So easy to re-neg afterwards.
If you're not armed/equipped to deal with the situation, then don't. Such incompetence.
So it turns out that there was a Canadian kid on board. He is in the hospital recovering from a blunt force trauma to the head due to a errant sledgehammer blow from the cops through the window....
So it turns out that there was a Canadian kid on board. He is in the hospital recovering from a blunt force trauma to the head due to a errant sledgehammer blow from the cops through the window....
... worst police EVER.
maybe that saved his life? otherwise the killer would have shot him.
but i think it's this family. Father and 2 daughters dead. Son in critical condition after brain surgery.
I don't have any training in storming busses, and I’m glad I don't because that is probably the worst situation to go into. Basically no element of surprise because the area you are advancing on is so small, the defender will always know you are coming unless it's loud for some reason or they can't see out (blinds in the windows).
I suppose storming a bus has similarities to FIBUA such as stacking up, forced entry and room clearing, but the sheer number of civilians on board just make it a lot more difficult than clearing a room.
I don't see why they couldn't have tied a winch cable through the bus door quickly and had an APC back up to pull the door down. This is common practice. If you've ever seen any of those SWAT reality shows on TV, they do it often. In any event they need to breach the door quickly. It's all about speed and throwing the defender off. If you sorta kinda hit the door and then think about it for a while and then stand around, you've sent the signal that yeah, we want to kill you, but we're not toally sure what were doing, which gives the terrorist time to think about what he's going to do.
Also, sledgehammers are not the ideal weapons for breaking tempered glass. I can't see why they wouldn't use a halligan tool like firefighters use. Maybe because their a little bit stabby, but they could have been used to tear the curtains out whilst they were forcing entry through the windows, if that was their plan. I don't see the point of smashing windows with curtains in the way other than to be used as a diversion for a second team entering the bus. Couple that with the fact all of these guys are like 5'2" tall and the bus windows are 6'. No ladders in the Phillipines?
Either way, their number one mistake is hesitation. When you make the decision to go, you have to go. These guys hesitated and people died. Yeah, their scared, you can see that from the video. But I am assuming that is their job. I'm assuming that the police/commandoes assaulting the bus have been trained for this and they should be following through with the assault.
When the defender sees police stacking up outside the bus, he knows it's game over. When it reaches that point you need to act fast to minimize the damage the defender does.
So you can do it like the Americans (diversionary explosion, immediate assault):
You can do it like the Russians (blow the living hell out of it):
Or you can do it like the Filipinos, and hesitate.
Bad taste photo of the year. From the Chinese hostage killings in Manilla.
