Shootings at Minnesota HS

[Reggie Dunlop]

Good Lord

[JiriHrdina]

CNN has more details on their home page.

Sounds like the shooter was a student at the school. Killed his grand parents before going on the rampage at the school.

WTF.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by fotze@Mar 21 2005, 05:47 PM
Well you broke the story before CNN, it seems. I can unequivacobly say that the sole blame to this lies in video games and/or music.....or marijuana....not just some self absorbed, little, picked on bas**rds who have been taught from day one that they are special when in fact they are not.

Combine the two factors and you have a large part of the reason. There are biological influences that must be taken into account resulting in the people having lower impulse controls, and other factors related to crime. Combine that with lackluster parenting to say the least where they are not taught the correct social skills, and by proxy don't learn how to interact. Ultimently the teens turn towards video games (often violent) in order to deal with their rage, and hatred. They are in effect learning how to kill, and without the correct social interactions they don't have anything to keep them from killing.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

People learn through repeated actions, and they don't learn the actual skills associated with killing (such as how to properly change a clip, or hell do anything else with weapons), but they do learn what is needed in a mental mindset. If you look into the systems that the US Army uses you will find that they in fact are the exact same as those employed by many of todays video game makers.

In effect someone who doesn't know better for whatever reason can in their own mind justify killing people, because they have done it hundreds, if not thousands of times before.

[FlamesAddiction]

When a similar thing happened in Columbine, every network immediately started breaking the news, and the president addressed the nation. This time it's pretty quiet. I wonder if it's a sign that people are becoming more desensitized?

Red Lake, MN is actually not too far from where I grew up. I have a good friend from that reserve.

[CaptainCrunch]

You've got to wonder where the parental superstition is with these freaky little killers, in the Columbine shootings, the parents of the killers chose to ignore thier obssession with guns, violent video games, death and explosives because it became thier baby sitters.

In this one, somebody apparently dropped the ball, because contrary to popular belief people don't just wake up one day, pick up a gun and kill people, theres a long list of symptoms.

Its time that the parents start getting charged when thier little johnny goes on a killing spree.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

WTF??

Unbelievable. How very, very sad........and needless.

RIP to all the innocent who died in this unfortunate incident.

How sad.

It's now on CNN's site:

CNN

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction@Mar 21 2005, 06:22 PM
When a similar thing happened in Columbine, every network immediately started breaking the news, and the president addressed the nation. This time it's pretty quiet. I wonder if it's a sign that people are becoming more desensitized?

That's the first thing I thought as well. The story didn't even lead on the evening news. When Columbine happened it it not only led the newscasts, it took over the networks for several hours. It was on CNN all night.

[zarrell]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@Mar 21 2005, 06:30 PM
You've got to wonder where the parental superstition is with these freaky little killers, in the Columbine shootings, the parents of the killers chose to ignore thier obssession with guns, violent video games, death and explosives because it became thier baby sitters.

In this one, somebody apparently dropped the ball, because contrary to popular belief people don't just wake up one day, pick up a gun and kill people, theres a long list of symptoms.

Its time that the parents start getting charged when thier little johnny goes on a killing spree.

Well said and I completely agree.

One of the biggest problems in today's society is a lack of parenting and discipline. The two should go hand in hand.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos+Mar 21 2005, 07:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RougeUnderoos @ Mar 21 2005, 07:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-FlamesAddiction@Mar 21 2005, 06:22 PM
When a similar thing happened in Columbine, every network immediately started breaking the news, and the president addressed the nation. This time it's pretty quiet. I wonder if it's a sign that people are becoming more desensitized?

That's the first thing I thought as well. The story didn't even lead on the evening news. When Columbine happened it it not only led the newscasts, it took over the networks for several hours. It was on CNN all night. [/b][/quote]
The difference? I'm saddened to say, Indian Reservation vs. Upper-class suburban neighbourhood.

[Mike F]

Originally posted by Marc Ciampa+Mar 21 2005, 05:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Marc Ciampa @ Mar 21 2005, 05:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

That's the first thing I thought as well. The story didn't even lead on the evening news. When Columbine happened it it not only led the newscasts, it took over the networks for several hours. It was on CNN all night.

The difference? I'm saddened to say, Indian Reservation vs. Upper-class suburban neighbourhood. [/b][/quote]
That may be part of it, but to say it is the difference is overstating it IMO.

Columbine was the first of its kind IIRC, which is always going to have the biggest impact. Today's tragedy wasn't even the first after Columbine, and I don't recall the others getting any more press.

Also, so much of Columbine played out live, for an extended period on TV. The shooters were roaming through the school for a while, and there was great uncertainty over how many shooters there were and where they were, giving camera crews time to get to the school and catch those dramatic live images of the students being evacuated by police, the student escaping out the window, etc., etc.

From what I can gather, the shooter today walked down a hall shooting, into one classroom where the students were killed and then shot himself. This was over before anyone in the media got wind of it, and it's the video footage that turns an incident like todays into a national one.

Columbine isn't Columbine without the video.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally posted by Mike F@Mar 22 2005, 02:45 AM


Columbine isn't Columbine without the video.

You could also say that Columbine isn't Columbine without every major network in the U.S. rushing there to set up a media village - something that clearly didn't happen in Red Lake.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Oops. Link not working.

[Mike F]

Originally posted by FlamesAddiction+Mar 21 2005, 06:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FlamesAddiction @ Mar 21 2005, 06:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mike F@Mar 22 2005, 02:45 AM


Columbine isn't Columbine without the video.

You could also say that Columbine isn't Columbine without every major network in the U.S. rushing there to set up a media village - something that clearly didn't happen in Red Lake. [/b][/quote]
There is a causation issue here:

No precedent for highschool shootings of this kind + live and extensive video of the drama = a public that is completely riveted and desperate for more coverage

A public that is completely riveted and desperate for more coverage = major U.S. networks desperate to provide more coverage and compete for ratings

Are you saying that major U.S. networks airing shots of the school after the fact, shots of the grandparent's house after the fact etc., could generate the intense interest of the endless loops they showed of the live coverage of Columbine?

[Super-Rye]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard@Mar 21 2005, 05:53 PM
Ultimently the teens turn towards video games (often violent) in order to deal with their rage, and hatred. They are in effect learning how to kill, and without the correct social interactions they don't have anything to keep them from killing.

I'm sorry, but playing a video game, no matter how violent, does not teach a kid how to pull a trigger. It's just excuses so parents can weasel away from blame. It's bullshinguard. Comics, music, video games, have nothing to do with how to kill someone, and if a kid's so impressionable that he see's something on TV or in a movie and decides to do it himself, he should be locked away, and it's the parents fault for not seeing their kid is a ######ed ass monger.

[Pagal4321]

I agree with Super-Rye on this one....No matter how much people can put blame on violent video games, violent movies, music, etc. It takes alot more then that to pull the trigger of a real gun and kill someone. Unless really they don't know the difference, and that's where I think the parent's should be comming in at some point.
Also, as stated earlier, people don't just wake up and decide, let's kill my granparent's and go to school and kill people there. There has to be at least a handful of tell-tale signs that something's wrong with the kid.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by Super-Rye+Mar 21 2005, 08:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Super-Rye @ Mar 21 2005, 08:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Mean Mr. Mustard@Mar 21 2005, 05:53 PM
Ultimently the teens turn towards video games (often violent) in order to deal with their rage, and hatred. They are in effect learning how to kill, and without the correct social interactions they don't have anything to keep them from killing.

I'm sorry, but playing a video game, no matter how violent, does not teach a kid how to pull a trigger. It's just excuses so parents can weasel away from blame. It's bullshinguard. Comics, music, video games, have nothing to do with how to kill someone, and if a kid's so impressionable that he see's something on TV or in a movie and decides to do it himself, he should be locked away, and it's the parents fault for not seeing their kid is a ######ed ass monger. [/b][/quote]
I agree to a certain point, but you can't think like someone who is rational. You have to seperate yourself from everything you have ever grown up with and at least attempt to see the world from someone elses point of view. I don't think that video games make me want to kill someone/teaches me how to kill, but given the right situation I can see how someone might learn some of life and well killing from a video game.... especially one designed for killing.

Anyways that is just my view, and I can understand where you are coming from.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Lots of news of how this NATIVE kid was prowling the White Supremacist boards... Yeah, because that's a crowd that loves natives too. Unless this guy thought he was actually white. Senseless.

I'd of just prefered if you hung yourself with your shoelaces kid. Better yet, seek help.

[red '00]

This is getting extreme. How many times are we going to hear about things like this before they can come up with a way to stop it? It will likely be blamed on TV, or video games, or the bad influence of siblings... Meh, I figure some people are just born sick in the head, and need to be taken care of before they go on a fricken shooting rampage. Absolutley disgusting.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I think the lack of coverage is mostly due to it being on a native reserve. As bad as we in Canada treat our natives, the US is much worse. Natives in America are hardly even on the radar. I honostly don't think the average American knows or cares very much about the natives of their land.

As far as the video game blame goes, its too hard to say. I have read many studies on this and written reports on it for Uni and there are so many differing opinions, you can't say anything for sure. I don't think anyone believes that a video game can turn your average kid into a killer, but studies do show that violent video game raise the level of aggresion in their players, and I know way too many kids who have listened to too many 2pac and 50 cent Cds and turned into little thugs.
Having said that, I'm a former hadcore Unreal Tournament player and a listener of gangster rap who has no intentions or desires to hurt anyone but I think the wrong person who is very impressionable can be affected by almost anything and use it as a trigger to go off and do something stupid.