Madoff gets 150 years in jail. Wife has to live with $2.5mil

[Bertuzzied]

And he deserves every year of that. His poor wife now has to go from $171billion in assets to $2.5million. Poor her. She should be in jail too.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bernar...&asset=&ccode=

Some of those stories from his investors are pretty sad. Most of them losing millions. You needed at least 1 to 2 million minimums to invest with him.

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-bud...-out-by-madoff

Allan Goldstein, a 76-year-old veteran of the Korean War, and his wife Ruth had invested in Madoff's firm since 1997. In a letter to Judge Chin, he described himself as destitute.
"I had two other investment counselors but Madoff outperformed them every year (so I thought), and I moved all my money (it was an IRA) to Madoff. I am now destitute. We had to sell our home in upstate New York at a very reduced price to avoid foreclosure. We are now living in one room in my daughter's house in California. I cannot pay my long term health insurance. I had to give up my car, and we are applying for food stamps.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

And he deserves every year of that. His poor wife now has to go from $171billion in assets to $2.5million. Poor her. She should be in jail too.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bernar...&asset=&ccode=

Some of those stories from his investors are pretty sad. Most of them losing millions. You needed at least 1 to 2 million minimums to invest with him.

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-bud...-out-by-madoff

Allan Goldstein, a 76-year-old veteran of the Korean War, and his wife Ruth had invested in Madoff's firm since 1997. In a letter to Judge Chin, he described himself as destitute.
"I had two other investment counselors but Madoff outperformed them every year (so I thought), and I moved all my money (it was an IRA) to Madoff. I am now destitute. We had to sell our home in upstate New York at a very reduced price to avoid foreclosure. We are now living in one room in my daughter's house in California. I cannot pay my long term health insurance. I had to give up my car, and we are applying for food stamps.

I'm curious to hear your rationale for that.

[Clever_Iggy]

Madoff is a scumbag. I don't know if it's US Bankruptcy laws or some sort of trust or off shore account, but Madoff's wife should be stripped of all assets to help (albeit, minimally) the creditors.

I feel bad for the likes of Mr. Goldstein, but a truly prudent investor would have diversified. This will sound harsh - and I don't mean it to be... I just can't think of a better way to put it right now - but Goldstein failed to diversify his investments but rather put all his eggs in one basket out of greed (not the right word...). These are the consequences...

[MelBridgeman]

I feel sorry for the people who lost money, but man somethings are sometime too good to be true...

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by valo403

I'm curious to hear your rationale for that.

You'd think she would have known something fishy was up with her husband's business dealings. But perhaps she happily lived in ignorance while the billions of $$ rolled in. Who knows really.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by valo403

I'm curious to hear your rationale for that.

There are over $12 billion dollars that has not been recovered. I'm sure her and her sons helped hide some of it.


As the New York Daily News reported, investigators were zeroing in on a pair of his wife's curiously timed wire transfers totaling $15.5 million just before he turned himself in. "She's even more of a repulsive sociopath than Bernie," Madoff victim and bestselling author Alexandra Penney said in a rant on the Daily Beast. And attorney Jerry Reisman, who represents 14 victims who lost a combined $150 million, told the New York Daily News: "This is stolen money, the fruits of the crime -- and it must be returned. Why should she continue to live a life of luxury while the victims are penniless?"

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

There are over $12 billion dollars that has not been recovered. I'm sure her and her sons helped hide some of it.


As the New York Daily News reported, investigators were zeroing in on a pair of his wife's curiously timed wire transfers totaling $15.5 million just before he turned himself in. "She's even more of a repulsive sociopath than Bernie," Madoff victim and bestselling author Alexandra Penney said in a rant on the Daily Beast. And attorney Jerry Reisman, who represents 14 victims who lost a combined $150 million, told the New York Daily News: "This is stolen money, the fruits of the crime -- and it must be returned. Why should she continue to live a life of luxury while the victims are penniless?"

My point is that you don't get sent to jail on speculation. I don't believe for a second that she was innocent, but unless the prosecution can prove that she was complicit there's no crime and no jail time.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

And he deserves every year of that. His poor wife now has to go from $171billion in assets to $2.5million. Poor her. She should be in jail too.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bernar...&asset=&ccode=

Some of those stories from his investors are pretty sad. Most of them losing millions. You needed at least 1 to 2 million minimums to invest with him.

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-bud...-out-by-madoff

Allan Goldstein, a 76-year-old veteran of the Korean War, and his wife Ruth had invested in Madoff's firm since 1997. In a letter to Judge Chin, he described himself as destitute.
"I had two other investment counselors but Madoff outperformed them every year (so I thought), and I moved all my money (it was an IRA) to Madoff. I am now destitute. We had to sell our home in upstate New York at a very reduced price to avoid foreclosure. We are now living in one room in my daughter's house in California. I cannot pay my long term health insurance. I had to give up my car, and we are applying for food stamps.

That's too bad, but it happens to thousands of people every year. People make bad personal and financial decisions that leave them poor and it never makes the news. Sure, it might not be millions that they are losing, but for someone who lower/middle class, buying a lemon vehicle or another bad purchase, can be just as bad.

I have trouble feeling bad for anyone who blows their money on magic beans.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

That's too bad, but it happens to thousands of people every year. People make bad personal and financial decisions that leave them poor and it never makes the news. Sure, it might not be millions that they are losing, but for someone who lower/middle class, buying a lemon vehicle or another bad purchase, can be just as bad.

I have trouble feeling bad for anyone who blows their money on magic beans.

Well this wasn't really a case of magic beans. Madoffs returns, or purported returns, weren't so outlandish to make the investors idiotic for not thinking something was up. This guy was duping people who had careers based on investing.

I don't feel bad for people who get screwed over by get rich quick schemes, but this wasn't that sort of scheme. It had all the markings of a relatively prudent investment, which made it such an astoundingly effective scheme.

[4X4]

Valo's got it. There's nothing wrong with people making money. I don't get the mentality of some people that automatically don't care about or have no sympathy for people that were once wealthy. Like as though they're happy that the mighty have fallen on bad times. Why? Because you couldn't get rich yourself, so you're glad that someone lost their shirt?

[Bertuzzied]

This is a long and hard read. Madoff's victims emails to the judge.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...ims_impact.PDF

[mykalberta]

No sympathy for the wife at all. She likely didnt have a hand in the fraud, but definatly knows there the money is sheltered.

I find it hard to feel sorry for someone who had 1-2 mil to invest and lost it. They invested poorly and got taken, whether it be from some fraudulant jacka$$ or the market - at least you can go afte the jacka$$ where as the markets are immune.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

No sympathy for the wife at all. She likely didnt have a hand in the fraud, but definatly knows there the money is sheltered.

I find it hard to feel sorry for someone who had 1-2 mil to invest and lost it. They invested poorly and got taken, whether it be from some fraudulant jacka$$ or the market - at least you can go afte the jacka$$ where as the markets are immune.

You do realize that having in excess of $1mil to invest at retirement age doesn't make you rich, right?

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by valo403

Well this wasn't really a case of magic beans. Madoffs returns, or purported returns, weren't so outlandish to make the investors idiotic for not thinking something was up. This guy was duping people who had careers based on investing.

I don't feel bad for people who get screwed over by get rich quick schemes, but this wasn't that sort of scheme. It had all the markings of a relatively prudent investment, which made it such an astoundingly effective scheme.

One per cent per month regardless of market conditions really doesn't sound like a "relatively prudent investment," or it shouldn't have for the experienced professionals recommending their clients gravitate into this.

It's not just the people picked up at cocktail parties by the Madoff's or their surrogates . . . . . it's bigger institutions or other brokers pushing people towards this, where reponsibilities of due diligence were obviously ignored, that turns the stomach a bit.

What he said was happening, for that length of time, was patently impossible and the smart people in the business should have known that.

Basically it came down to "well, everyone else is doing it, so it must be safe!!!" and that's as far as their investigations went.

I do believe the public has a right to expect regulatory authorities to be more diligent in these kinds of situations, particularly when they have people coming to them warning of fraud.

I don't feel sorry for the victims to the extent greed overcame prudent, common sense.

However, in this particular case, this should never have gotten as far as it did and some larger institutions/brokers are going to rightfully get their butts sued off while institutions like the SEC are exposed for massive incompetence.

Cowperson

[mykalberta]

If someone put all there eggs in the Madoff basket then its like any other investment that go go array. Why should I feel more sorry for someone who invested in Madoff then someone who put all there money in Oil Ftures when it was $150 and lost it, or someone who invested in a home and now has 60% of what they paid.

If anyone over-leveraged themselves with Madoff they have no one to blame but themselves. There is always the one or two that sure I would feel sorry for if I read about them but that doesnt change my general view. To often the sob story cases are brought out to make a cause or event seem more important then it really is. People are responsible for there own actions in life and they must live with the consequences of those actions.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

One per cent per month regardless of market conditions really doesn't sound like a "relatively prudent investment," or it shouldn't have for the experienced professionals recommending their clients gravitate into this.

It's not just the people picked up at cocktail parties by the Madoff's or their surrogates . . . . . it's bigger institutions or other brokers pushing people towards this, where reponsibilities of due diligence were obviously ignored, that turns the stomach a bit.

What he said was happening, for that length of time, was patently impossible and the smart people in the business should have known that.

Basically it came down to "well, everyone else is doing it, so it must be safe!!!" and that's as far as their investigations went.

I do believe the public has a right to expect regulatory authorities to be more diligent in these kinds of situations, particularly when they have people coming to them warning of fraud.

I don't feel sorry for the victims to the extent greed overcame prudent, common sense.

However, in this particular case, this should never have gotten as far as it did and some larger institutions/brokers are going to rightfully get their butts sued off while institutions like the SEC are exposed for massive incompetence.

Cowperson

You're right, someone who did their homework likely wouldn't have been caught in this scheme. But the fact remains that many people who have made their living in this sector were taken for a ride, so it hardly seems fair to tell the common investor that they should have known better.

I don't think there's much of a common sense argument when it comes to managing investments for the majority of people. It's a foreign concept to most of us, and when people to whom it isn't foreign are signing up there's a lending of legitimacy. It's easy to quote the old 'don't invest in what you don't understand' maxim, but the reality is that if everyone did so most of us wouldn't invest in much of anything.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Valo's got it. There's nothing wrong with people making money. I don't get the mentality of some people that automatically don't care about or have no sympathy for people that were once wealthy. Like as though they're happy that the mighty have fallen on bad times. Why? Because you couldn't get rich yourself, so you're glad that someone lost their shirt?

There is nothing wrong with making money, but I don't feel sorry for people who don't spend within their means and then find themselves poor. Spending over your means shows a clear lack of wisdom and judgement. Whether it looked like a good invetment or not, someone should never go all in like that. Stupid people get no sympathy from me.

Not to mention pretty much everything in the financial world is some kind of hustle.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There is nothing wrong with making money, but I don't feel sorry for people who don't spend within their means and then find themselves poor. Spending over your means shows a clear lack of wisdom and judgement. Whether it looked like a good invetment or not, someone should never go all in like that. Stupid people get no sympathy from me.

Not to mention pretty much everything in the financial world is some kind of hustle.

I assume your mattress is packed full of $100's

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by valo403

You're right, someone who did their homework likely wouldn't have been caught in this scheme. But the fact remains that many people who have made their living in this sector were taken for a ride, so it hardly seems fair to tell the common investor that they should have known better.
.

I believe I said all that . . . . .

The pro's should have known better and the common man should have been protected by regulatory authorities to a greater extent.

Nevertheless, one per cent per month, regardless of conditions, is not normal and is right up there on a "should I trust it?" level with these local development companies essentially promising the same thing on mortgage bonds or promissory notes.

There's a place you get to where even the common man has no excuses, where greed has overtaken common sense.

Pigs get slaughtered.

Cowperson

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

If someone put all there eggs in the Madoff basket then its like any other investment that go go array. Why should I feel more sorry for someone who invested in Madoff then someone who put all there money in Oil Ftures when it was $150 and lost it, or someone who invested in a home and now has 60% of what they paid.

If anyone over-leveraged themselves with Madoff they have no one to blame but themselves. There is always the one or two that sure I would feel sorry for if I read about them but that doesnt change my general view. To often the sob story cases are brought out to make a cause or event seem more important then it really is. People are responsible for there own actions in life and they must live with the consequences of those actions.

Alot of these people were earning 6-8% while some hedge funds were paying out 20-30%. They weren't in it for a quick get rich scheme.

How about these people in pension funds? do you feel sorry for them?

Fairfield, Conn.
town pension fund
$42,000,000
The town's employees board and police and fire board, which cover 971 workers, had $41.9 million invested with Madoff, said Paul Hiller, Fairfield's chief fiscal officer.

Korea Teachers Pension
A 10 trillion won Korean pension fund
$9,100,000