Obama's addition of troops to Afghan...

[North East Goon]

What do you think of his boost the number of soldiers and get out approach? Is he just another patsy in the war machine?

[Hevishot]

I thought he was going to get the troops out?

[Sliver]

That country is a write-off. We all need to GTFO.

[worth]

Otto: Um, how are we going to get out of here?
Homer: We'll dig our way out!
Wiggum: No, dig up, stupid.

[VladtheImpaler]

Very funny cartoon in the latest Economist... I think the magazine is on my treadmill at home, but I believe it was to the effect of "What is your exit strategy from Afghanistan?" and the answer is "We are still translating from the original Russian"...

[Byrns]

It's not an easy solution, if we leave tomorrow we'll be back to Sept. 11, 2001 within 6 months.

However, it does look like it's a never ending meat grinder right now. Perhaps if they were surrounded by oceans they could be like Somalia and branch out into piracy instead.

[CaptainCrunch]

Its a start to me, I watched his speech last night, I think it was a little wishy washy, but overall the right thing to do and say. Putting an additional 30,000 troops on the boarder to Pakistan might allow for better security in those border regions.

I do like the fact that Canada will get command of about 2000 American Troops in the Khandahar (sp?) region, and those troops will comprise a Stryker Battalion.

The Stryker Brigade Combat Team (SBCT) is designed entirely around a new armored vehicle: the Stryker wheeled armored vehicle. The Stryker Brigade is organized differently than the Infantry or Heavy Brigade Combat Teams. The Stryker Brigade Combat Team consist of 3 Infantry Battalions, 1 Reconnaissance (Cavalry) Squadron, 1 Fires (Artillery) Battalion, 1 Brigade Support Battalion, 1 Brigade Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 1 Network Support Company, 1 Military Intelligence Company, 1 Engineer Company, and 1 Anti-Tank Company. Unlike the Infantry and Heavy BCT's there is not a Brigade Special Troops Battalion nor Forward Support Companies in the Brigade Support Battalion for the five manuever elements.

That additional firepower, manpower and mobility should allow Canada to be more responsive.

But the whole situation depends on the rest of his speech and if he can pull it off. Its crucial that the American's work with Pakistan to stop the flow of insurgents into Afghanistan. The American's need to be able to provide better intelligence to their allies in the area.

The rest of the allies and American's I think need to adopt Canada's model village strategy.

I also really think that there needs to be an acceleration on the training of Afghanistan's army and security forces.

I think between now and 2011 there has to be a massive influx of civilian workers to finish the projects that are being worked on right now. They need to work on creating a better standard of living in terms of clean water, education and medical care, at the end of the day thats really the only way that your going to beat the Talliban.

I did also notice that Obama did a decent job in his speech of opening the door to negotiations with moderates in the Talliban as well. If that works and you can protect them from retaliation it could help crack the ranks of the extremists.

Look, I don't like Obama all that much, but I was ok with what he was saying last night.

[Dion]

Canada tried to help Afghanistan establish a stable government that could protect itself but that didn't work. Not sure what the USA can do better in that matter.

Get the troops out before more are killed. The cause is lost.

[peter12]

Yep, all those little girls going to the school for the first time ever or the women who now have some measure of protection (as opposed to absolutely none) from honour slayings, acid burnings and the like. Oh wait, and the country isn't ruled by cruel clerics who whip women for appearing alone in public.

Yeah, that country is a write-off. We should GTFO.

[Russic]

I had a discussion with my wife's little cousin over the weekend. He will apparently be a part of the last group to go over to Afghanistan (should everything go according to his plan). Freaks me out ... my previous memory of him was as a little kid running around playing with balloons (and that wasn't too long ago). I want this country out of there badly.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Hevishot

I thought he was going to get the troops out?

He wants to finish up in Iraq, but I am pretty sure he planned on putting more troops in Afghanistan all along.

[burn_this_city]

We can't jump ship now. It'd be a huge mistake to let the country devolve back into a extremist safe haven. Also we owe it to the Pakistanis to stay and help since the US walked away after the Soviet conflict instead of assisting the Mujahadeen in rebuilding Afghanistan like they promised.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Byrns

It's not an easy solution, if we leave tomorrow we'll be back to Sept. 11, 2001 within 6 months.

Haha...........too funny.

[CaptainCrunch]

At the end of the day you can't write off Afghanistan, you can't cut and run, all that happens when you do that is you embolden the extremists who will now have a playbook on how they're going to beat you because at the first sign of trouble you run.

The Soviet defeat in Afghanistan was devestating and it gave the Chechens a playbook for fighting the Soviets and that war became extremely costly.

NATO leaving would also break faith with the people that they have helped as they've built schools, helped people medically and worked on building better infrastructure. You leave then to the tender mercies of the extreme elements of the Taliban and you're going to create an even bigger whirlwind of hatred towards the American's and their allies by the people that you've abandoned.

Remember what Charlie Wilson said after the American's basically abandoned Afghanistan after helping them beat the Soviets

These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we f$$ked up the end game.

The American's and their allies need to find a way to leave Afghanistan in better shape then when they entered it. They need to up the education level if they can, help Afghanistans gain a level of care and the ability to keep that secure. Then they can leave.

If they just cut and run, they'll be back again in 10 years.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

At the end of the day you can't write off Afghanistan, you can't cut and run, all that happens when you do that is you embolden the extremists who will now have a playbook on how they're going to beat you because at the first sign of trouble you run.

The Soviet defeat in Afghanistan was devestating and it gave the Chechens a playbook for fighting the Soviets and that war became extremely costly.

NATO leaving would also break faith with the people that they have helped as they've built schools, helped people medically and worked on building better infrastructure. You leave then to the tender mercies of the extreme elements of the Taliban and you're going to create an even bigger whirlwind of hatred towards the American's and their allies by the people that you've abandoned.

Remember what Charlie Wilson said after the American's basically abandoned Afghanistan after helping them beat the Soviets

These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we f$$ked up the end game.

The American's and their allies need to find a way to leave Afghanistan in better shape then when they entered it. They need to up the education level if they can, help Afghanistans gain a level of care and the ability to keep that secure. Then they can leave.

If they just cut and run, they'll be back again in 10 years.

Yes in a perfect world we'd stay there and make it better. In reality, the Americans are basically bankrupting themselves in the process and I don't want us Canadians spending more money there, either.

There's lots of stuff I want but can't afford. Governments should more or less work within a budget as well and unfortunatley, we can't afford to buy peace in this messed up region.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yes in a perfect world we'd stay there and make it better. In reality, the Americans are basically bankrupting themselves in the process and I don't want us Canadians spending more money there, either.

There's lots of stuff I want but can't afford. Governments should more or less work within a budget as well and unfortunatley, we can't afford to buy peace in this messed up region.

We can fight for it, dammit. Human lives are worth more than the dollars we spend to protect them.

I think our troops know why we are there. We are there to protect innocent people from being murdered by a bunch of disgusting, cowardly criminals.

[FlamesAddiction]

At what point do you say enough is enough? If we're still there 25/50/200 years from now, do we finally just pull out and lock Afghanistan out from the rest of the world?

They will become this country's largest social warfare project.

Also we owe it to the Pakistanis to stay and help since the US walked away after the Soviet conflict instead of assisting the Mujahadeen in rebuilding Afghanistan like they promised.

Pakistan is part of the problem. For one thing, they are dictatorship and nothing for Afghanistan to aspire to. Not to mention, there are regions of Pakistan just as f'ed up as Afghanistan and so even if we transform Afghansitan in to a liberal democracy, the extremists in Pakistan will move in the moment we pull out.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by peter12

We can fight for it, dammit. Human lives are worth more than the dollars we spend to protect them.

I think our troops know why we are there. We are there to protect innocent people from being murdered by a bunch of disgusting, cowardly criminals.

Nobody would argue money is more important than lives. But fighting for it, damnit, costs money we don't have.

There are people that need protecting all over the globe - do you want to save them, too?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

At what point do you say enough is enough? If we're still there 25/50/200 years from now, do we finally just pull out and lock Afghanistan out from the rest of the world?

I don't disagree with this, however we've given our commitment to be there til 2010, at which point no matter what we have to get our military out of there. There will be tremendous pressure from the American's and NATO to stay because frankly Canada has done an outstanding job there. However we do need the time off to get the veteran's into the training programs, to rebuild and refit our military and give them a period of rest.

Canada's exit strategy for next year is pretty clear, we have to make sure that the Khandahar region is secure. We have to continue the model village program and get that method adopted by NATO, we have to try to transition that region to the Afghan Security Forces. If we can do these things its a success for Canada. Can it happen? Not sure, but we have to try to create those conditions, I'm not a fan of surrendering that region to those crazy nutbars.

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

They will become this country's largest social warfare project.

Agreed, but you just can't say F-You we're outtie when things get tough.

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Pakistan is part of the problem. For one thing, they are dictatorship and nothing for Afghanistan to aspire to. Not to mention, there are regions of Pakistan just as f'ed up as Afghanistan and so even if we transform Afghansitan in to a liberal democracy, the extremists in Pakistan will move in the moment we pull out.

Pakistan is a huge problem and a lot of that was caused by the internal battle between their military and their intelligence service who for years supported the Taliban and the tribal warlords against their own government and military. Now they've paid for that and they're stuck in a similar quagmire in the tribal regions that Nato is stuck in Afghanistan.

The one positive that could come out of this is that there is now pressure on the extremists on Pakistan's side of the border which could distract them from their tasks in Afghanistan.

[coolsurfer]

I really like this article about US official, Matthew Hoh, who resigned over the war in Afghanistan. He was a former Marine Captain who served in Iraq and the senior U.S. civilian in Zabul province. He makes a really good case on why we have no business over there.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...102603394.html