Hey, so I'm seriously considering buying a keyboard to play around with. I've been playing the piano for a long time, and figure it is now time to invest, so I'm wondering if any of my friends from CP have any input or wise knowledge they could share with me to help me out?
I would like the keyboard to have a fair amount of sounds (at least 50), 76-88 keys, and be high enough quality that it could be played on stage if need be. Right now i'm leaning towards this son of a gun:
Does anyone have any experience/opinions on this keyboard? Are there better options out there? And what do you guys know about keyboard amps? How much wattage should I want out of a keyboard amp, and I have heard that you can play them out of bass amps too... anyone have any experience with that? All input will be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by MonsieurFish; 11-29-2009 at 03:17 PM.
Does anyone have any experience/opinions on this keyboard? Are there better options out there? And what do you guys know about keyboard amps? How much wattage should I want out of a keyboard amp, and I have heard that you can play them out of bass amps too... anyone have any experience with that? All input will be greatly appreciated.
Okay here goes:
1. lots of people have experience/opinions
2. Probably
3. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
4. you want lots of wattage. At least a million micro-joules/km
5. Again, probably lots of people have experience with that.
Is ALL input still greatly appreciated? If so, you're welcome.
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I've been playing the piano for a long time, and figure it is now time to invest, so I'm wondering if any of my friends from CP have any input or wise knowledge they could share with me to help me out?
If you want something that will play more like a piano, make sure it's got a weighted keyboard. If you want something that plays just like a pure keyboard, then it's not as big a deal -- but I know that personally, because I'm used to the touch of a real piano, playing on anything that's not weighted just feels wrong.
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I am a total amateur that's trying to teach myself piano but I run my keyboard out of my guitar amp which is probably a silly idea.
I'm still trying to figure out the whole USB or Midi thing and wondering what software would interface with a keyboard to get me a ton of sounds through a computer.
I am a total amateur that's trying to teach myself piano but I run my keyboard out of my guitar amp which is probably a silly idea.
I'm a guitar guy, but if your amp has a clean channel, that's not a terrible thing. I have a Roland JC-55, which is from the family of probably the cleanest solid state amps made, and the manual specifically talks about using the low gain input for keyboards. The JC-120 is still made, although it's probably overkill for the Monsieur's needs (its 120 watts!).
It really depends on what you want. Do you want something with a lot of sounds or do you want a really good sounding digital piano? If you want a lot of sounds and don't care about weighted keys you could get a workstation, like the Korg Triton or whatever. If you want weighted keys and a better dedicated piano sound then go for something like the Roland, but it's worth noting that most of the non piano sounds on stage pianos are usually pretty lacking.
I'm not sure what price you can get on the Roland, but looking online it looks like it retails for about $1600 USD. Personally, if I was looking to spend that kind of money, I'd probably think about spending a little more and getting something from Nord. The Electro 73 key piano/organ is pretty well regarded. I believe it has weighted keys and most of the stock sounds I've ever heard from Nords are fantastic. I've heard head to head comparisons with the original instruments they're sampling and they're almost indistinguishable on a recording. I believe that model offers several pianos, several organs, a range of electric pianos (Rhodes, Wurlitzer, etc.), some weirder instruments like mellotrons, and some string and horn patches.
There's also a lot of adjustability on Nord keyboards, so instead of having a standard organ patch with a couple of parameters (vibrato, reverb, etc.) they've actually sampled every drawbar setting from several different organs so you can drastically shape the sound just as you would on the real instrument. They are also pretty insane at holding their value, should you ever want to sell in the future. Also, you should go try some keyboards out at a music store, since feel and sound is a very personal thing.
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I work for a Roland dealer. We don't carry that one....but Roland gear is top notch and their piano technology is particularly good. Go and see Paul Lau at Axe music...they carry all major brands and their pricing is very competitive. He's very knowledgeable and will help explore your options with you.
Last edited by Biff; 12-07-2009 at 11:43 AM.
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I had a Nord Stage 76 for a year or so, 76 keys, hammer action. Its Rhodes and Wurly patches are absolutely second to none. It also comes with good B3 emulation (including a good quality leslie effect), Vox Continental, and Farfisa, all of them with working drawbars and with quirks emulated (like the B3 "Percussion" thing). An amazing live board, because everything is laid out spectacularly well - buttons and pots, no stupid menus. Want some tremolo and (good) amp simulation on your Wurly, for example? Hit a button, twist a nob, both specifically meant ONLY for those things. It's awesome.
As for its pianos, well, they sounded pretty decent over headphones. Through my rig, I didn't really like how they sounded, but in fairness good EP tone was more important to me, so I set up for that.
The keyboard action itself was a joy to play. It really felt like an instrument, instead of a fancy electronic toy. It did a few things, not 9723792 of them, but it did each one really well. Expect to pay $3000, at least, for a 76-88 key.
As for the Roland you're eying, I don't think you can go wrong with it either. I'm not a massive Roland fan honestly, but those RD series keyboards are quality.
Bass Amps:
I ran my keyboards through a few different bass heads, especially a few different Ampeg SVTs, with a 6x10 cab. Sounded awesome, very warm on the EPs. A massive pain to move all that gear though, but I thought it was worth it.
I had a newer SVT 2-PRO and I found it sometimes wasn't loud enough (300W tube). A friend of mine has a 1978 SVT and that thing is a beast, super loud.
A head that surprised me actually, was a Traynor Dynabass 800W. It's solid state with a tube preamp and actually pretty loud. Good price. Didn't colour my tone too much.
Obviously, since we're talking about bass amps and not keyboard amps, a lot of bass heads have a pretty big scoop which, of course, effs up our tone. If you can find one that's pretty flat, it'll work. I wish I knew more about actual keyboard amps, but I can definitely say that bass amps can work well. You might have to mess around with different rigs for a bit to get your tone worked out though.
Thanks for the input guys... it is much appreciated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biff
I work for a Roland dealer. We don't carry that one....but Roland gear is top notch and their piano technology is particularly good. Go and see Vince Lau at Axe music...they carry all major brands and their pricing is very competitive. He's very knowledgeable and will help explore your options with you.
I went to axe music earlier today to go check out some other keyboards... and turned out the store didn't exist anymore. Has it moved or shut down or something? I hadn't been there for about a year so maybe it's old news that it shut down but I didn't know that.
edit: it appears it has moved to macleod trail
Last edited by MonsieurFish; 11-29-2009 at 10:15 PM.
Thanks for the input guys... it is much appreciated.
I went to axe music earlier today to go check out some other keyboards... and turned out the store didn't exist anymore. Has it moved or shut down or something? I hadn't been there for about a year so maybe it's old news that it shut down but I didn't know that.
edit: it appears it has moved to macleod trail
Axe moved right onto MacLeod Trail and had a huge grand opening. Didn't realize there were that many crazy musicians in Calgary. They had insane prizes with a big spinning wheel you could spin with a purchase. I stood in line 1 hour to get into the store and another hour just to spin the wheel.
Took home an Italian made Roland keyboard stand even though I had basically landed on "worst prize" which was "pick whatever you want" from a tent in the parking lot. I don't have a keyboard that fits on it though as all I have a Yamaha ez-250i that I got from Craigslist in California.
I kind of miss the old store which was rambling and dark and chaotic in that way. The new one is a bit too studio clean. The keyboard department is better though although still cramped. They had a big sale on all Korgs that day IIRC. If I wasn't a total loser at piano, I almost picked up a Micro Korg but I'm not sure about the new model.
For all you CP pianists out there, any recommendations on any cool pieces I can try out? I am still pretty bad at reading music but just like guitar, if you give me a piece of music that's cool I will just chip away at it with practice and repletion until I get it even if I don't have any real chops at the instrument, they sort of develop along the way by accident and that's how I learn instruments. My problem is I just don't have anything I'm motivated enough to sit down and really feel like playing. I'd love some jazzy pieces for a rhodes piano type deal.
I used to play the piano as well and when I bought a digital keyboard I really wanted the full 88 keys. It just felt "right" when playing. Mine is a Roland that has a full keyboard stand. Although the keyboard part can be detached from the stand, it's really, really heavy. So, portability may be something to consider if you need to take it to gigs and stuff.
Also consider buying used. Good keyboards get pretty pricey. I picked up mine used and it was in excellent condition for quite a bit cheaper.
Axe moved right onto MacLeod Trail and had a huge grand opening. Didn't realize there were that many crazy musicians in Calgary. They had insane prizes with a big spinning wheel you could spin with a purchase. I stood in line 1 hour to get into the store and another hour just to spin the wheel.
Took home an Italian made Roland keyboard stand even though I had basically landed on "worst prize" which was "pick whatever you want" from a tent in the parking lot. I don't have a keyboard that fits on it though as all I have a Yamaha ez-250i that I got from Craigslist in California.
I kind of miss the old store which was rambling and dark and chaotic in that way. The new one is a bit too studio clean. The keyboard department is better though although still cramped. They had a big sale on all Korgs that day IIRC. If I wasn't a total loser at piano, I almost picked up a Micro Korg but I'm not sure about the new model.
For all you CP pianists out there, any recommendations on any cool pieces I can try out? I am still pretty bad at reading music but just like guitar, if you give me a piece of music that's cool I will just chip away at it with practice and repletion until I get it even if I don't have any real chops at the instrument, they sort of develop along the way by accident and that's how I learn instruments. My problem is I just don't have anything I'm motivated enough to sit down and really feel like playing. I'd love some jazzy pieces for a rhodes piano type deal.
The only cool thing my keyboard can do is this:
A couple real good songs for you to learn that I love are "the crystal ship", and "yes, the river knows" both by the doors. Not too too hard on piano, and some good classic rock songs. I'm sure there are plenty more awesome doors songs to learn on the keyboards as well.
Sparks covered the hot warm lovin' that is Nord keyboards.
As for amps, I've tried quite a few things, with a couple of goals in mind. Unfortunately, they're a bit mutually exclusive.
1) Control over tone
2) Loudness
3) Amount (i.e. heaviness) of gear
It's very easy to get two of 3 but I had a lot of trouble getting all three. I find that most so-called "keyboard amps" aren't loud enough to keep up with a full volume live band. Guitar players are just way too loud for those things. I think they're much better as personal monitors or as the only amp for quieter gigs (i.e. jazz, small clubs, "acoustic" shows).
For a long time in my cover band I was using a small powered speaker as a personal monitor (in addition to the stage mix monitor) and letting the PA do the work of the volume. This was great in that I had to take very little gear with me, but all the control I had over my tone was on my keyboard. I didn't like this. It gave the sound guy way too much control over what I sounded like and that's just never a good thing. (Sorry Trad )
Also, keep in mind your sound will be a lot different if you direct-out from the keys or if you mic the amp. Almost all sound guys don't want to mic a keyboard player's amp, and that's because they're usually lazy or don't know what they doing.
After that, I switched back to the rig I use in Thwomp where I want a really gritty lead tone, where I basically set my tone how I want it and leave it for the show. I don't switch patches like you need to for cover gigs so using your EQ actually does you some good. That's the SVT classic rig that Sparks mentioned; the 90 pounds of vintage tube tone. I put it through either a 6x10 or an 8x8 bass cab. I usually prefer the sound of the 6x10. The biggest problem I have with this rig is that the volume levels at different registers can be different. That's all the amp though.
I think the best amp I had for a while was an old Acoustic vintage bass head with a 6-band EQ. Having that much control over the frequencies eliminated the problems with different registers having different volumes. And, it was solid state, so it was way lighter than the beastly SVT. Problem is, it broke.
Oh wait, that's not actually true. I rented a vintage Leslie for a weekend of shows once. It definitely fails on the "movable gear" category but I've never sounded so good.
Last edited by Five-hole; 11-30-2009 at 02:53 AM.
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A couple real good songs for you to learn that I love are "the crystal ship", and "yes, the river knows" both by the doors. Not too too hard on piano, and some good classic rock songs. I'm sure there are plenty more awesome doors songs to learn on the keyboards as well.
Hmm, while I will go 70's classic rock on my guitar, it's not really my thing and we likely have very different musical tastes (ie: I don't like Them Crooked Vultures, don't kill me hahaa!). For some odd reason when I goto a piano, I have to go jazzy/improvising or I don't feel it.
I'm looking more for some good jazzy rhodes/funk piano pieces.
(After 20 seconds)
Though I'd love to figure out some classic 80s rock pieces
Basically all I'm lacking is any decent sheet music while there's tons of great pieces on youtube, I'm too lacking in skill and tone to pick any of it up that way.
Help buying a (musical) keyboard
