Those who died too early: Overrated vs. Legitimately Good

[GirlySports]

When someone dies early, it's easy to overrate them. Morrison, Tupac, James Dean, JFK, the World Trade Center (before 9/11, they were viewed as an architectural eyesore by many), they all got a lot of positive response at very least partially due to their early demises. But what about those who would have been really good?

Heath Ledger. I remember watching Brokeback Mountain and thinking "man, Heath Ledger is amazing in this role". He really stood out in a lot of movies that were average at best (he was the only thing, for example, that kept The Brothers Grimm from being totally unwatchable), and he really shined. He would have gotten the Oscar for the Joker regardless of him living or dying. I think that was a real loss.

Pelle Lindbergh. This guy was the reigning Vezina Trophy winner. The Flyers had a hole between the pipes ever since.

Roberto Clemente. If he wasn't so selfless, he'd probably be in the top 10 in career hits. 400 more hits after age 37 wouldn't be totally out of the question. Damn shame.

Bruce Lee: Charismatic legit Asian movie star in the 70s! He was teaching martial arts to Hollywood, James Coburn, Steve McQueen, Kareem Abdul Jabar. It's 2011 and there hasn't been an Asian close to breaking into Hollywood since Bruce Lee 40 years ago.

And a couple guys I'm not sure of:

Kurt Cobain: Not saying he wasn't great; Nevermind was the last gamechanger album released. I just wonder if we saw his peak, and whether his message would have been blunted if it continued. Would Nevermind become the Illmatic of Alternative Rock?

Len Bias: Easily one of the three or four best college players I've seen in my many years of following hoops. I just doubt that his fatal overdose was the first time he did coke.

Jeff Buckley: This one is tough because there's so much forecasting involved. He only had one album and like half of that was covers, one of which is what he's known for by like 90% of people, but the original stuff was really good. Amazing voice and guitar work but got a lot more acclaim after he died than before.

[Frank MetaMusil]

To date, Sublime has released four studio albums, one live album, five compilation albums, three EPs and one box set. The band released its debut album 40 Oz. to Freedom in 1992. Although the album was quite popular in the United States, Sublime would not experience commercial success until 1996 with their self-titled third album, released shortly after Nowell's death, which peaked at number 13 on the Billboard 200, and spawned the single "What I Got", which remains the band's only number one hit single (on the Billboard Alternative Songs chart) in their musical career. The self titled album is now considered a classic ska album by fans and critics. As of 2009, Sublime has sold over 17 million albums worldwide, including about 10 million in the U.S. alone. Along with Bad Religion, Green Day, The Offspring, and Rancid, Sublime is credited with helping to revive mainstream popular interest in punk rock in the United States in the mid-1990s.

[Yeah_Baby]

I think there is a difference between legitimately good and generational talent though. I think the Doors are legitimately good. But I also think Morrison was an narcissistic alcoholic ######bag.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

I think there is a difference between legitimately good and generational talent though. I think the Doors are legitimately good. But I also think Morrison was an narcissistic alcoholic ######bag.

But being a real talent and being an a-hole are not mutually exclusive things.

[Yasa]

Definitely no asian actors. I mean, Jackie Chan, Jet Li and Chow Yun Fat don't count because they're not asian enough. (I'm assuming you were waiting for somebody to bring up these guys?)

[frinkprof]

I think it's important when dealing with this topic to differentiate between skill and volume of work. Some artists/athletes/public figures may not have produced much work before they died young but were undeniably talented, whereas some produced a lot before they died young but weren't overly talented.

Not an exhaustive list but:

Overrated: JFK (in the context of American Presidents and/or political figures), Kurt Cobain (and I definitely like Nirvana's body of work), Notorious BIG, River Phoenix

Legitimately tragic loss of talent: Buddy Holly, Tupac Shakur, John Lennon, Janis Joplin, Cliff Burton

[Dion]

nm

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

When someone dies early, it's easy to overrate them. Morrison, Tupac, James Dean, JFK, the World Trade Center (before 9/11, they were viewed as an architectural eyesore by many), they all got a lot of positive response at very least partially due to their early demises. But what about those who would have been really good?

Wasn't Tupac very popular, talented and respected befpre his death, as well? Not saying you're wrong, as I was a young'in when he died, but I always thought he was hugely popular and considered very talented before and after his death.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

But being a real talent and being an a-hole are not mutually exclusive things.

I should clarify. I think Morrison is overrated. But I do think the Doors are legitimately good.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Jimi Hendrix was a gigantic loss to the music world. Legitimately great.

[Knut]

Does Jesus count in the overrated category ?

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by Hesla

Does Jesus count in the overrated category ?

I'm not sure if he's including fiction.

[Weiser Wonder]

Kurt Cobain probably would have gotten better.

Bruce Lee actually isn't dead, he became an undercover cop fighting Chinese gangs.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Yasa

Definitely no asian actors. I mean, Jackie Chan, Jet Li and Chow Yun Fat don't count because they're not asian enough. (I'm assuming you were waiting for somebody to bring up these guys?)

They've had very limited success. I mean a sidekick to friggin' Chris Tucker? That's embarrassing. Chow Yun Fat has so little success he had to back to China to become Li Mu Bai :P

Originally Posted by flameswin

Wasn't Tupac very popular, talented and respected befpre his death, as well? Not saying you're wrong, as I was a young'in when he died, but I always thought he was hugely popular and considered very talented before and after his death.

If Tupac was still alive, he'd be just another rapper, like Ice Cube or Snoop Dogg.
Being killed elevated him above them.

[frinkprof]

Legitimately tragic loss: Chuck Shuldiner, Phil Hartman

Overrated: Sid Vicious, Michael Hutchence

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

They've had very limited success. I mean a sidekick to friggin' Chris Tucker? That's embarrassing. Chow Yun Fat has so little success he had to back to China to become Li Mu Bai :P

Jackie Chan has had way more Hollywood titles than Bruce Lee. Clearly this is due to lifespan but you can't say Bruce Lee was more successful. He definitely paved the way for Jackie Chan, but to say there weren't any successful asian actors after Bruce Lee isn't true.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Dion

Golfer Payne Stewart would be another addition to the list.

In what way?

Unless you are saying he may be overrated, which I suppose may be the case.He had 3 Majors, but he was never a player of the year, and he was 42 so he wasn't going to threaten any sort of records.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Yasa

I'm not sure if he's including fiction.

Seeing as there's a crapton of non-bibical evidence indicating the existence of Jesus, I'd say not only is your comment foolish, but that Jesus wins this whole thread walking away. Dude dies at 33 and after a little time passes, people believe en mass that he was the son of god. Surely that's more impressive than the sum total of accolades heaped on the guy from Nirvana

[MarchHare]

Cobain has to be the most over-rated musician I've ever heard. Nirvana are by no means bad, and I'll listen to them anyday over genuine crap like Nickelback, but to hear some people rave about them (predominantly Gen-Xers who were in their teens or early 20s when Nevermind was released), you'd think they were second only to The Beatles in terms of musical influence.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

In what way?

Unless you are saying he may be overrated, which I suppose may be the case.He had 3 Majors, but he was never a player of the year, and he was 42 so he wasn't going to threaten any sort of records.

I failed to read all of what GS posted